Withdrawal of Adelantes and 142 news

[whole diary]

[martyjon]

The 153s were technically and internally knackered, not the best choice for stock.

What do they say, half a loaf is better than none at all.

Surely out of the millions of profit First Group reported in their publish accounts, they or the owning ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) could have given the 153's a refresh and put them into service rather than make the passengers suffer the overcrowding that has been a noteable feature of peak hour travel since last December and on the Cardiff - Portsmouth throughout the day. Its having to be done now to make them presentable for the new lessee TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

[Timmer]

The 153s were technically and internally knackered, not the best choice for stock. The 142s are no better though! I'd like FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to refuse to use them and demand the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) does something useful for once.

Its a shame to see a modern fleet of stock stored at Eastleigh. Why don't FGW pull out all the stops and either use them on Cardiff - Portsmouth or strenghthen any 180s left with FGW running as permenant 10 car units.

In a word MONEY. Angel Trains are asking too much for them and FGW or anyone else WONT pay what they are asking. Personally I feel FGW should work something out with Angel trains and as an act of goodwill and get them running on Cardiff-Portsmouth so the displaced 158s can be used elsewhere on the network thus saving the people of Devon and now looks like the Bristol area (6 to be based at SPM^▸ (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot))) having to use 142s. If First management are that serious in rescuing this franchise they need to put their money where their mouth is and keep the Adelantes. I'm pretty certain they would more than get their money back as business people would use them Cardiff-Pompey as they have 1st class. Come on First show DfT that you are a company worthy of winning more franchises by investing in what should be your jewel in the crown franchise.

[gaf71]

You could say that!!

With the exeption of 329 and 369 our 153s are wrecks!

What are the chances of a fleet of new trains for us in the SW then under Andrew Haines?

I can dream...

I would say the chances are precisley nil! You will be very lucky to even see the refurbed 158's anywhere south of Bristol....That's why only Exeter and Penzance crews(who have one job between Exeter and Newton Abbot) are learning 142's, because they are going to be here for a while.(down south that is!)

[grahame]

In a word MONEY. Angel Trains are asking too much for them and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or anyone else WONT pay what they are asking. Personally I feel FGW should work something out with Angel trains and as an act of goodwill and get them running on Cardiff-Portsmouth so the displaced 158s can be used elsewhere on the network .....

I heard a quote of 15 million pounds per year for FGW to retain the Adelantes - I'm not sure if that was for the whole fleet, or enough for the Cardiff - Portsmouth, nor whether it was the total cost or the difference over and above using 2 car 158s for the service. If anyone can help quantify this, it would help in the understanding.

The comment was also made that the TCO (total cost of ownsership) of an Adelante is the same as the total cost of owenership of a 125, even though they only have a half of the capacity.

It's not in anyone's interest to have expensive resources (trains) sitting in sidings doing nothing when they could be earning money for both their owners (Angel Trains) and an operator (such as FGW).  But while the two parties wrangle and negotiate and play brinkmanship, it leaves the people for whom passenger trains exist in the first place - passengers - fuming on the platform. I am inclined towards blaming the system more than any of the individual companies. When the Adelantes come back into use somewhere, we should all take a look at the solution and ask "why couldn't they have got their heads together and come to that conclusion before taking them out of service?"

[vacman]

It would cost ^15m to retain Adelantes on CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-PMH services according to FGW^▸ (First Great Western), thats before any profit, for unreliable units that keep setting on fire and probably burn more fuel (being 5 cars=5 engines), unless Angel trains get real with their leasing cost's then these units will sit in sidings turning rusty and nobody can really blame FGW for this. Would you do it if it were your business?

[grahame]

Many thanks for clarifying the origin of that 15 million figure. And, no, I would not invest 15 million unless I had a business case. And I would be reluctant to invest it if I thought that a bit of robust negotiation would reduce the figure significantly.

[Timmer]

Would be interesting to know what the annual income is for the Cardiff-Portsmouth route. ^15 million is a lot of money I agree but what income is generated on this line and what could be generated by improving rolling stock with first class which may encourage people off the A36 and back onto the Severn Solent line.

A lot of negative customer experience of either being left behind at a station or being crammed in to a two car 158 would have made people go back to their cars this past year or so. If services were to improve passengers may come back (good publicity of new trains on the route) and income would increase.

I do agree though that Angel are asking too much for them otherwise why wouldnt another operator have snapped them up.

[vacman]

Would be interesting to know what the annual income is for the Cardiff-Portsmouth route. ^15 million is a lot of money I agree but what income is generated on this line and what could be generated by improving rolling stock with first class which may encourage people off the A36 and back onto the Severn Solent line.

A lot of negative customer experience of either being left behind at a station or being crammed in to a two car 158 would have made people go back to their cars this past year or so. If services were to improve passengers may come back (good publicity of new trains on the route) and income would increase.

I do agree though that Angel are asking too much for them otherwise why wouldnt another operator have snapped them up.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are probably playing a waiting game, Angel won't want trains that aren't even ten years old sat in sidings off lease so they will have to reduce the leasing costs, the Adelante's would probably boost passenger numbers on the route.

[Jim]

Would be interesting to know what the annual income is for the Cardiff-Portsmouth route. ^15 million is a lot of money I agree but what income is generated on this line and what could be generated by improving rolling stock with first class which may encourage people off the A36 and back onto the Severn Solent line.

A lot of negative customer experience of either being left behind at a station or being crammed in to a two car 158 would have made people go back to their cars this past year or so. If services were to improve passengers may come back (good publicity of new trains on the route) and income would increase.

I do agree though that Angel are asking too much for them otherwise why wouldnt another operator have snapped them up.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are probably playing a waiting game, Angel won't want trains that aren't even ten years old sat in sidings off lease so they will have to reduce the leasing costs, the Adelante's would probably boost passenger numbers on the route.

I found a leaflet burried in a pile of junk at my house, about when the 180's were brand new!

[Timmer]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are probably playing a waiting game, Angel won't want trains that aren't even ten years old sat in sidings off lease so they will have to reduce the leasing costs, the Adelante's would probably boost passenger numbers on the route.

Lets put it this way, I dont think we've heard the last on this one. Over to you Andrew H.