Online FGW ticket buying warning !

[whole diary]

[imac]

Interesting.

The strict principle, as suggested by Ollie, must be true and would apply in a commercial contract. However Courts, in dealing with consumer matters, tend nowadays to take a wider view. They don't like 'fine print'. I would have to see a court case before myself coming to firm conclusions on this one. 
 
FGW^▸ (First Great Western) might find it difficult to deny that they know about this problem [ even if because it has now been discussed on this unofficial web site]. The prudent thing would surely be to get the contractors to sort the web site?

Even railway web sites can be sorted quite quickly. I recollect once, myself travelling quite legitimately within open hours, waving  friendly-like in front of the Inspector a fresh printout that showed that cheap tickets did not have a block before 09:30. He turned ashen faced, made an excuse and left in a hurry. By that evening, that part of the web site had been closed, and by the next day had been fixed.

[Brucey]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) might find it difficult to deny that they know about this problem [ even if because it has now been discussed on this unofficial web site]. The prudent thing would surely be to get the contractors to sort the web site?

The ticket buying pages of the website are operated by Trainline.com Limited, who trade as "First Great Western".  It is also made clear in the T&Cs that you are dealing with Trainline.com Limited.

The company who run the main website (and the trains) is First Greater Western Limited trading as First Great Western.

I believe First Greater Western Limited would easily be able to argue that it isn't their website which is giving the misleading information.

[Deltic]

I usually use East Coast, which has the Mixing Deck interface and gives 10% discount on their own fares.  If the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) site does not give discounts, then I would advise using an alternative site with the Mixing Deck.

[grahame]

I usually use East Coast, which has the Mixing Deck interface and gives 10% discount on their own fares.  If the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) site does not give discounts, then I would advise using an alternative site with the Mixing Deck.

That's somewhat logical in that a certain percentage of the ticket price goes to the ticket seller (what figure is it these days? Anyone know?) and if you can sell your own tickets with low admin costs, why not?

[imac]

Even more interesting.

Two different firms apparently trading in the same area and under the same name.
I had forgotten about the change of firm's name to First Greater Western in 2006 ; thank you for the reminder.
However the 'Legal Notice' seems also to have forgotten, as First Great Western and First Greater Western seem to be used indiscriminately through the page of small print. Perhaps there is a reason, but it is not immediately obvious?
In the Legal Notice it is "our on line ticket booking service".

What I have also found on exploring the relevant web site is that a warning about Advance Tickets pops up when one hovers over the 'cheapest fare' words, but not when one simply clicks in the purchase box. And, yes, agreed, there is a final warning at the point of purchase.

It all looks a bit of a shifty muddle to me. I don't follow the logic of the contributors who defend this arrangement. A simple fix to the web site would deal with my stupid-consumer issues and resolve any possible legal issues in one.

[Chris from Nailsea]

In which case, imac, you will need to take that matter further with 'First Great Western' themselves.  This particular forum is not an "unofficial web site" for, or on behalf, of FGW^▸ (First Great Western): it is "provided by a customer of First Great Western, and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned."

Chris. 

[imac]

No, no - Chris!

I would not want to be beastly to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) after my outstanding day out on Club 55. I shall cherish the memory until, hopefully, next year's offer.

And I personally can buy FGW tickets at my local station, where the team are both pretty well briefed and tolerant of answering silly questions.

imac

[standardsingle]

Even more interesting.

Two different firms apparently trading in the same area and under the same name.
I had forgotten about the change of firm's name to First Greater Western in 2006 ; thank you for the reminder.
However the 'Legal Notice' seems also to have forgotten, as First Great Western and First Greater Western seem to be used indiscriminately through the page of small print. Perhaps there is a reason, but it is not immediately obvious?
In the Legal Notice it is "our on line ticket booking service".

What I have also found on exploring the relevant web site is that a warning about Advance Tickets pops up when one hovers over the 'cheapest fare' words, but not when one simply clicks in the purchase box. And, yes, agreed, there is a final warning at the point of purchase.

It all looks a bit of a shifty muddle to me. I don't follow the logic of the contributors who defend this arrangement. A simple fix to the web site would deal with my stupid-consumer issues and resolve any possible legal issues in one.

Hi if you ask for a refund you find yourself dealing with First Great Western.  They just say no, taking a "we don't make mistakes" attitude, which is unwise considering that websites can and do have problems despite everyone's best efforts.

If you contact Trading Standards, now Consumer Direct, they will tell you what others have here: Distance Selling rules do not apply in this case.  But they'll probably also tell you that you can write to the company saying that misleading statements by them led you to buy something you did not expect and so you would like it refunded.  The key word  in law seems  to be "Misrepresentation".  In this case Trading Standards were interested and said that if the refund was refused they might look into it.  Passenger Focus expressed the same interest.

Likewise your credit card company's TOS probably give "product not as described" as grounds for a chargeback, in other words a refund.  In this case FGW^▸ (First Great Western) did not see a case for a refund but the credit card company did, finally.

I see FGW's site has been made over but the booking apparatus looks the same, so I am updating this so anyone having difficulties will understand that they can pursue the matter.  There's now also a warning at stives.mobi/transport.php

I truly cannot see why they set it up like this.  Well, until I spoke with someone who got off a plane very tired and clicked the first option seeing the word "cheapest" and bought a first class ticket without meaning or wanting to.

[inspector_blakey]

Standard disclaimer...not a lawyer!

So as I understand it from what you have written above, the credit card company has agreed to refund as they judged the goods not to be as described. I am inferring (perhaps incorrectly) that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has made no admission of any mistake or responsibility for the misunderstanding. I would guess that a credit card company refunding the consumer doesn't in any way mean that FGW is legally liable for anything, just that in the CC issuer's opinion there was groud for a refund. That said it does sound like the retailer could be making life easier for its customers, but I'm fairly sure that would be thetrainline and not FGW per se.

Regarding your friend who tipped off a flight and then bought the wrong ticket, my opinion is that a degree of personal responsibility needs to come into play. If I had done that (and believe me, I know all about getting off planes feeling very very tired) I would have thought it was my own fault and put it down to experience, not gone after the company because I didn't find their user interface as clear as it could have been... Just my opinion though, I'm sure others' will vary.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

just an update this issue has now been fixed