New Sprinter trains??

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

Yes, we need a rolling order of 172s (or equivilent) to replace ALL stock pre the 158s (and then the 158s too). I've always said this.

I wouldn't say that exactly. 172s with their suburban design are not really suitable replacments for classes 153 to 159. Hopefully electrification (directly or indirectly) will clear most if not all the Pacers off the network so that leaves an order of 75mph 172s (the London Midland version with corridor-fitted-cabs) to replace 150/0s and 150/1s (life-extend the other Sprinters in the hope electrification will proceed fast enough that most won't need diesel replacements). Life-extending the 153s is expected to entail converting them back into 155s so I would suggest an order of 172-based trains laid out like a class 175 (doors located in vestibles at the ends of vehicles, seats with legroom and aligned with windows ext. (but with padding, unlike 175 seats)) but with corridor-fitted-cabs like 158s/159s, 377s and LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)-172s to boost the numbers to compensate. This would be a 90/100mph unit, perhaps including a pantograph car (creating a bi-mode, but with the lower top-speed and 23m vehciles this would be a far more useful one than the 125mph train with 26m vehicles DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) are planning with IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), since most (probably all) the 125mph lines will be electrified by 2020).

[Richard Fairhurst]

There's always these, if regauged. Though I suspect that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have probably had quite enough erratic 'Almost' DMUs for the time being.

[grahame]

There's always these, if regauged. Though I suspect that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have probably had quite enough erratic 'Almost' DMUs for the time being.

The *look* like class 158 units ... and there are 27 of them.  That's sufficient to be a true standard fleet not an oddball setup.

[JayMac]

But you have to ask why the Irish have got rid of them only half way into their designed life span, despite overhauling them in 2010.

[Richard Fairhurst]

From reading up on other forums (for what that's worth) there seems to be two reasons: 180-style reliability and IE's bizarre procurement policy. They're certainly not the units you'd choose if there were a rolling stock surplus. But there isn't, and I can think of several places these would be very handy - ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), for one...

[JayMac]

The *look* like class 158 units ... and there are 27 of them. 

It's 27 cars. 12 two-car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (Class 2700) an 2 single car units (2750). With one spare car to cover for faults/ maintenance, which is half of a Class 2700 2 car unit.

The spare was latterly added to the spare from the earlier Class 2600 2 car DMUs to form a 'hybrid' unit.

[Rhydgaled]

From reading up on other forums (for what that's worth) there seems to be two reasons: 180-style reliability and IE's bizarre procurement policy. They're certainly not the units you'd choose if there were a rolling stock surplus. But there isn't, and I can think of several places these would be very handy - ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), for one...

70mph 2-car units with a suburban-door layout. Sounds like a good replacment for Pacers but Wales' Pacers should be getting EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) replacments in the next 8 years. Maybe replacements for some of Northern's Pacers and/or some 150/1s.

[JayMac]

Personally, I'm not so sure re-gauging these IE units would be that straightforward.

Are there off-the-shelf bogies that can be purchased? If not, then the expense of procuring a new build of bogie for a relatively small fleet may be prohibitive.

Then there's other hardware to take into account. Such as UK^▸ (United Kingdom) standard TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System). What about the engines and traction motors? Will there be a ready supply of spare parts from Cummins and would those parts be interchangeable with existing parts for UK DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)? And what of operational flexibility to run these IE units in multiple with existing UK stock? Couplers?

All probably not insurmountable issues, but I doubt it's just as simple as bolting on some 4ft 8^in bogies, and putting them into traffic.

[TonyK]

Are Knorr brakes a stock item?

[JayMac]

Are Knorr brakes a stock item?

Ba-dummm, tschhhh.

Keep it up son, we'll soon have you playing the big venues.

[grahame]

Are Knorr brakes a stock item?

Delighted to have those looked after with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) territory 

http://www.knorr-bremse.co.uk/en/group/kbingermany/kbingermany_group.jsp

[TonyK]

Delighted to have those looked after with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) territory 

http://www.knorr-bremse.co.uk/en/group/kbingermany/kbingermany_group.jsp

I never cease to be amazed by how my knowledge can be increased by following these threads!