Paying with Cards

[whole diary]

[John R]

Have you noticed how many people pay using cards, even for very small amounts? The number commuting in from Nailsea who pay ^3.50 every day by card is significant, with the result that the train manager is rarely able to get through the train - result, lots of people have to queue at the barrier (where again, people are using cards.) It's the same at the stations with the ticket machines, with the result that many have to buy on board, penalty fares notwithstanding.

Northern trains have notices asking you to pay by cash for small amounts (under a fiver), but why not go one better, and charge a 30p fee for any transactions under, say, ^10. This would result in a much more efficient revenue collection process. If FGW^▸ (First Great Western) was feeling philanthropic it could donate the fees collected to charity, or split it 50%/50% with the train managers.

Another idea - why not enable ticket machines to sell you a ticket for the following day after 2pm, so passengers returning in the evening could prepurchase their ticket for the following day. Or give you the option when purchasing a ticket by hitting one button to buy an identical ticket for the following day, thus enabling the number of transactions at the machine to be reduced.


    

[martyjon]

Well isn't it time then for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to introduce CARNET's (I think that's the term used). A book of ten single tickets which are sold at a discount to the single fare which can be used at anytime. There is a date limit printed on the tickets after which they cannot be used but new books are offered for sale giving the holders the opportunity to use the tickets within the period of validity. Barnstaple branch is one line where they are available and are purchased at a number of outlets, such as Post Offices, Village Stores and Main Station ticket offices.

As a IT professional, I am of the opinion that the ticket machines could be programmed to issue the carnet tickets (10 individual single tickets) but I certainly would not want to be behind a person carrying out such a transaction in the morning peak so again set a time limit on when these ticket types are available.

Of course the machine would not be able to perforate and staple the tickets into a book but it would cut down the need for people to buy a ticket every time they travel as the purchase of a weekly season may not be economic if they only visit the Bristol office two or three day a week, the other days they travel to the WSM office and / or the TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) office.

The Ticket Type could be printed CARNET, the Start date, self explanatory and the Valid until being one calendar month / two calendar months / three calendar months into the future.

[vacman]

Well isn't it time then for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to introduce CARNET's (I think that's the term used). A book of ten single tickets which are sold at a discount to the single fare which can be used at anytime. There is a date limit printed on the tickets after which they cannot be used but new books are offered for sale giving the holders the opportunity to use the tickets within the period of validity. Barnstaple branch is one line where they are available and are purchased at a number of outlets, such as Post Offices, Village Stores and Main Station ticket offices.

As a IT professional, I am of the opinion that the ticket machines could be programmed to issue the carnet tickets (10 individual single tickets) but I certainly would not want to be behind a person carrying out such a transaction in the morning peak so again set a time limit on when these ticket types are available.

Of course the machine would not be able to perforate and staple the tickets into a book but it would cut down the need for people to buy a ticket every time they travel as the purchase of a weekly season may not be economic if they only visit the Bristol office two or three day a week, the other days they travel to the WSM office and / or the TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) office.

The Ticket Type could be printed CARNET, the Start date, self explanatory and the Valid until being one calendar month / two calendar months / three calendar months into the future.

Already done, albeit on a limited scale, Carnet's are available on the Tamar Valley line and the Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) line.

[vacman]

Oh, and on the subject of credit cards I think there should be a minimum fare of ^10 because they are a pain in the arse! People regularly pay fares of less than ^1 on a card, i'd feel embarresed to pay by card for such a small amount!

[martyjon]

I did post,

Barnstaple branch is one line where they are available and are purchased at a number of outlets, such as Post Offices, Village Stores and Main Station ticket offices.

The Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) Line.

[martyjon]

Oh, and on the subject of credit cards I think there should be a minimum fare of ^10 because they are a pain in the arse! People regularly pay fares of less than ^1 on a card, i'd feel embarresed to pay by card for such a small amount!

or add an administrative charge of say ^2-50 for transactions under ^10-00

[Jim]

The only time my Dad ever pays by card for a train journey (I can't - too young!) is on the Fastticket machines, if it is above a Fiver roughly, this way it saves it rejecting 65 different notes!

[mada]

Oh, and on the subject of credit cards I think there should be a minimum fare of ^10 because they are a pain in the arse! People regularly pay fares of less than ^1 on a card, i'd feel embarresed to pay by card for such a small amount!

or add an administrative charge of say ^2-50 for transactions under ^10-00

That couldn't be justified as an administrative charge and therefore would constitute a penalty which is unlawful. Why should we make it harder for people to pay for their tickets? First's wonderful fast ticket machines usually refuse to take cash anyway! I think First should provide something similar to an oyster card which you prepay online or alternatively get an invoice for every month. It would scan every time you entered or left a station. As you're aware cash points will not dispense anything below ^10 these days, many people who aren't so good with money will spend the difference if they withdraw the full amount for their journey.

Fares are expensive enough as it is... Why penalise people who might not have that much money in the first place and need to use their credit card to get to work at the end of the month.

[vacman]

I did post,

Barnstaple branch is one line where they are available and are purchased at a number of outlets, such as Post Offices, Village Stores and Main Station ticket offices.

The Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) Line.

Doh! think i'm going round the twist! sorry! 

[vacman]

Oh, and on the subject of credit cards I think there should be a minimum fare of ^10 because they are a pain in the arse! People regularly pay fares of less than ^1 on a card, i'd feel embarresed to pay by card for such a small amount!

or add an administrative charge of say ^2-50 for transactions under ^10-00

That couldn't be justified as an administrative charge and therefore would constitute a penalty which is unlawful. Why should we make it harder for people to pay for their tickets? First's wonderful fast ticket machines usually refuse to take cash anyway! I think First should provide something similar to an oyster card which you prepay online or alternatively get an invoice for every month. It would scan every time you entered or left a station. As you're aware cash points will not dispense anything below ^10 these days, many people who aren't so good with money will spend the difference if they withdraw the full amount for their journey.

Fares are expensive enough as it is... Why penalise people who might not have that much money in the first place and need to use their credit card to get to work at the end of the month.

No retailer has to accept credit cards at all, and an administration charge is NOT a penalty clause as it is to cover the extra costs involved in processing credit cards, many shops already use this system. The same people who slow the guard down on the train by paying stupid little fares with credit cards are the same people that moan like f**k at the barriers when they have to queue!

[mada]

Oh, and on the subject of credit cards I think there should be a minimum fare of ^10 because they are a pain in the arse! People regularly pay fares of less than ^1 on a card, i'd feel embarresed to pay by card for such a small amount!

or add an administrative charge of say ^2-50 for transactions under ^10-00

That couldn't be justified as an administrative charge and therefore would constitute a penalty which is unlawful. Why should we make it harder for people to pay for their tickets? First's wonderful fast ticket machines usually refuse to take cash anyway! I think First should provide something similar to an oyster card which you prepay online or alternatively get an invoice for every month. It would scan every time you entered or left a station. As you're aware cash points will not dispense anything below ^10 these days, many people who aren't so good with money will spend the difference if they withdraw the full amount for their journey.

Fares are expensive enough as it is... Why penalise people who might not have that much money in the first place and need to use their credit card to get to work at the end of the month.

No retailer has to accept credit cards at all, and an administration charge is NOT a penalty clause as it is to cover the extra costs involved in processing credit cards, many shops already use this system. The same people who slow the guard down on the train by paying stupid little fares with credit cards are the same people that moan like f**k at the barriers when they have to queue!

But if your fare is ^8-9 per day it seems reasonable to pay by card. There is no way it costs ^2.50 to process a card transaction, minor retails pay around 50p and a company the size of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will pay a fixed fee for processing card. If the "administration charge" is more than the actual cost of administration then it's a purely a penalty and the absolute c***s in charge of FGW already make enough despite running a p*** poor service. This whole thing wouldn't be a problem if they stopped asking for a pin for transactions under ^10 and perhaps got some more ticket machines installed at the stations. Retailers do not have to accept credit cards but those businesses who refuse to will go the way of the dodo as we increasingly move towards a cashless society.

Have you got any evidence apart from anecdotal that the people who pay with cards moan at barriers? If FGW would sort their barrier system ensuring that they all actually read tickets without flashing up "please ask for assistance" and they introduced some sort of permanent prepay card system as I described before we could potentially save time and also the environment. I've bought a few 1st minute fares recently where I received 7 tickets from the machine! The whole ticketing system is an absolute joke but stopping accepting cards (especially somewhere like temple meads where the cashpoint is after the barriers or in the middle of nowhere where there are no banks just shops with the dodgy ^1.50 charge cash machines) will just increase the price of peoples' commute on routes which are already severely overpriced compared to the rest of Europe.

[John R]

Remember my original proposal was a SMALL fee, of maybe 30p, levied on transaction of under ^5 (or maybe ^7.50). I don't think this is an unreasonable fee to try and discourage cards for very small transactions in order to speed up processing and enable everyone to buy a ticket with the minimum of inconvenience. SO lets not talk of ^2.50 fees or whatever, which I agree would be unacceptable and create widespread customer dissatisfaction. I believe my proposal would actually have widespread customer support (except from those who insist on using cards for unreasonably small amounts.)

[Mookiemoo]

I pay all my tickets with card (and am actually quite happy that chip and pin seems to have passed FGW^▸ (First Great Western) by as I detest the system on principal).

This is simply because I tun my own business - if I use the business card and it is registers the transaction on the bank statement, itmakes book keeping easier and less need for oodles of receipts - I just document the statement transactions.

if I pay cash I have to do so personally and reclaim from my business which is added hastle.

[martyjon]

When I posted earlier and suggested a ^2-50 administration fee for processing a credit card ticket purchase that was intentional to toss into the melting pot a figure which I guessed would provoke comment.

Comments made do, but not unanimously, support the idea a smaller fee (50p maximum).

I regularly book on enthusiasts specials with a well known railtour operator based in the Cotswolds whose trading name begins with the letter 'P' and for the past two years or so this organisation have applied a ^1-00 admin charge for bookings made by credit card.

[vacman]

I like the comment about how chip and pin has passed FGW^▸ (First Great Western) by, it's only because of the totally inadequate C+P system with the Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) machine that everyone just swipes cards! (me included), I'm all for an admin charge on credit cards though to deter people regularly paying fares of sometimes less than a pound!