Rail passengers baffled by train tickets. (Daily Telegraph 20/09/2011)

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

From the Daily Telegraph:

Rail passengers have been left baffled by complex travel restrictions imposed by train operators, a study has found.

Their plight has been worsened by the lack of clear information found on ticket selling websites, according to Which?

The break up of the rail industry following privatisation in the 1990s led to the creation of a number of train operators.

Each imposed their own restrictions and coined their own terms for discounted tickets.

Attempts to simplify fares appear to have made little impact with passengers failing to understand what restrictions are in place.

The problem has been thrown into sharper focus by plans to close one in four railway ticket offices.

A survey of 775 people who have travelled by train in the last 12 months showed that confusion still reigned.

For example 61 per cent of respondents did not know that Advance tickets were non refundable, while 48 per cent were unaware that they would have to pay again if they missed their train.

Three quarters of passengers did not know that an Anytime ticket allowed them to make their outbound trip within five days, while 58 per cent were unaware that they had a month to make their return journey.

"Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has already acknowledged that train tickets in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) are 'eye wateringly expensive',^ said Richard Lloyd, executive director of Which? ^To add insult to injury, people could be wasting money buying more expensive tickets than they need to, because it's so unclear what certain tickets allow them to do. Train operators have to recognise this is a problem and take urgent action to fix it. If they won't, the Government must step in to sort this out."

But a spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies dismissed the findings.

^This is a highly dubious and misleading piece of research. Which? has asked people to identify the detailed terms and conditions of tickets that they may never have bought. It^s like questioning someone on the plot of a film they haven^t seen or the rules of a sport they don^t follow.^

[Pedros]

I have to admit, that the ticketing options can be very confusing (and I'm a more regular train traveller)  For example, last weekend my missus needed to travel between Swindon and Paddington.  The ticket options offered an off-peak and a super off-peak return.  Not sure of the difference between the two, we looked at the description and validity behind each ticket and found this:

TICKET TYPE
OFF-PEAK
DESCRIPTION
Flexible ticket only valid at specific off-peak times of the day.
VALIDITY
Your outward journey must be on off-peak trains on the date specified, and you must return on off-peak trains within one calendar month. Off-peak times vary by route - our journey planner only shows off-peak tickets on trains for which they are valid.

TICKET TYPE
SUPER OFF-PEAK
DESCRIPTION
Flexible ticket only valid at specific off-peak times of the day.
VALIDITY
Your outward journey must be on super off-peak trains on the date specified, and you must return on super off-peak trains within one calendar month. Super off-peak times vary by route - our journey planner only shows super off-peak tickets on trains for which they are valid.

Both ticket types could use the same trains, and I really coudn't see any difference (accept the off-peak was ^10 more expensive) However, and this is what annoys me, my missus said "let me get the more expensive one, just to be on the safe side". I did manage to persuade her to go for the super off-peak and there appeared to be no issue getting home, but it makes you wonder whether other people err of the side of caution.  With the constant (!) notifications about penalty fairs etc, I do feel as though people are being confused/ scared into purchasing more expensive tickets they don't necessarily need. (**disengage cynical mode**)

[ChrisB]

And if you change your return plandms after purchase, the only way you can easily check is by further access to their journey planner...

Great, if you're in the middle of Oxfird Street and wanted to stay out longer/ getting pissed on & want to return earlier than planned!!

[Tim]

And if you change your return plandms after purchase, the only way you can easily check is by further access to their journey planner...

Great, if you're in the middle of Oxfird Street and wanted to stay out longer/ getting pissed on & want to return earlier than planned!!

I've said it before, but restictions should be printed on the ticket itself.  If they don;t fit then they need to be simplified.

[Maxwell P]

I would say that is true for many passengers in the Hayle-Redruth corridor.  They don't seem to know what tickets are.


The SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) cracked it some years ago with Blue, (reduced fare) and White,(full fare) periods. Simple As.  Colour the timetables accordingly et Robert est ton oncle.

[eightf48544]

But a spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies dismissed the findings.

^This is a highly dubious and misleading piece of research. Which? has asked people to identify the detailed terms and conditions of tickets that they may never have bought. It^s like questioning someone on the plot of a film they haven^t seen or the rules of a sport they don^t follow.^

The mind boggles. Where do these guys, and it's bound to be a guy, live?

It is stated quite clearly that Which questioned 775 people who travelled by train in the last 12 months and the percentages related to those 775. So they weren't being questioned on the plot of film they hadn't seen or sport they don't follow.

[grahame]

Following up on Pedros's question .... I've drawn up a (weekday, Chippenham to Paddington) validity chart:

05:55   07:17   PEAK
06:25   07:44   PEAK
06:55   08:14   PEAK
07:05   08:16   PEAK
07:25   08:44   PEAK
07:30   08:54   PEAK (Change at Swindon)
07:55   09:14   PEAK
08:25   09:44   PEAK
08:55   10:15   Off peak
09:25   10:39   Off peak
09:55   11:14   Off Peak
10:25   11:38   Super Off Peak
10:55   12:14   Super Off Peak
11:25   12:40   Super Off Peak
11:55   13:14   Super Off Peak
12:25   12:38   Super Off Peak
12:55   14:14   Super Off Peak
13:25   14:40   Super Off Peak
13:55   15:14   Super Off Peak
14:25   15:38   Super Off Peak
14:55   16:14   Super Off Peak
15:25   16:44   Super Off Peak
15:55   17:14   Super Off Peak
16:25   17:39   Super Off Peak
16:55   18:14   Super Off Peak
17:25   18:44   Super Off Peak
17:55   19:14   Super Off Peak
18:25   19:38   Super Off Peak
18:55   20:14   Super Off Peak
19:55   21:14   Super Off Peak
20:02   21:32   Super Off Peak (Change at Swindon)
20:55   22:14   Super Off Peak
22:15   23:50   Super Off Peak
23:00   00:33   Super Off Peak

and in the reverse direction:

05:27   06:38   PEAK
06:30   07:43   PEAK
07:00   08:13   PEAK
07:30   08:42   PEAK
08:00   09:13   PEAK
08:30   09:44   Off Peak
09:00   10:08   Off Peak
09:30   10:44   Off Peak
10:00   11:09   Off Peak
10:30   11:44   Super Off Peak
11:00   12:09   Super Off Peak
11:30   12:44   Super Off Peak
12:00   13:09   Super Off Peak
12:30   14:44   Super Off Peak
13:00   14:08   Super Off Peak
13:30   14:44   Super Off Peak
14:00   15:09   Super Off Peak
14:30   15:44   Super Off Peak
15:00   16:09   Super Off Peak
15:30   16:44   Off Peak
16:00   17:11   Off Peak
16:30   17:44   Off Peak
17:00   18:13   PEAK
17:30   18:43   PEAK
17:45   19:01   PEAK (Change at Swindon)
18:00   19:14   PEAK
18:30   19:43   PEAK
19:00   20:14   Off Peak
19:30   20:44   Super Off Peak
20:00   21:14   Super Off Peak
20:45   21:57   Super Off Peak
21:45   23:03   Super Off Peak
22:15   23:39   Super Off Peak
23:30   00:59   Super Off Peak

Peak tickets may be used on ANY train
Off Peak tickets may also be used on Super Off Peak trains
Super Off Peak tickets may be used ONLY on Super off peak trains.

Little card ... similar charts for Saturdays and Sundays ... would seem to be great for the person who travels the same route from time to time, but at different times of day.  This is certainly a help for our customers ... does FGW^▸ (First Great Western) publish anything like it?

[Pedros]

Grahame, you could just give me your phone number; you colud be my personal timetable picker...

Thanks, thats really helpful.

[matt473]

I'd say the biggest confusion now is the super off-peak. The confusion that your off-peak ticket is not valid on certain services beacuse it's a peak off-peak service meaning your off-peak off-peak ticket is not valid. No wonder people are confused   

[phile]

I am sure that there are so many fares to deliberately confuse people and con them into paying more.    Just go back to First Class and Srandard Class  retuirns and same price at booking office or on line in Advance or turning up as a"walk on"

[ChrisB]

Ouch! You would only be left with peak fares all day

[Brucey]

"For example 61 per cent of respondents did not know that Advance tickets were non refundable, while 48 per cent were unaware that they would have to pay again if they missed their train."

Did all 775 people buy an Advance ticket?  I think this would only be a fair question if they only asked people who bought such a ticket.  After all, why should a customer be aware of a restriction that doesn't apply to their purchase?  It would be like saying "61% didn't know the price of baked beans in a supermarket" when not all had visited the baked bean aisle.

Although I agree that the fares system is overly complicated, I believe that Advance tickets are one of the simplest things to understand.  You book a specific train (signified by "BOOKED TRAIN ONLY" being printed on your ticket).

Even online booking engines make this pretty clear:
Mixing Deck

TrainLine

[grahame]

Did all 775 people buy an Advance ticket?  I think this would only be a fair question if they only asked people who bought such a ticket.  ....

Ah - but that's then going to get you a biased sample too as it excludes all the people who looked at the advanced tickets being offered, and decided against them because they wanted some flexibility.

[grahame]

Update / article at http://wellho.info/3452

Please let me know of any omissions / errors.   Thanks!

[JayMac]

That's a good analysis of the fares structure grahame.

It's highly unlikely that Which? and ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) are ever going to see eye to eye. One is a consumer action group, the other is an industry mouthpiece.

Wholesale change to the fares structure is highly unlikely in my opinion. A whole new system would need to bring in the same revenue as present taking account of the Govt. stated aim of reducing the taxpayer subsidy.

What I would like to see though is an independent body responsible for fares setting and policy rather than this being in the hands of ATOC and individual train operating companies. This already happens in London where fares policy is controlled by TfL^» (Transport for London - about), a part of the Greater London Authority.