What Cross Country used to look like.

[whole diary]

[smokey]

I'd missed that post.

[pbc2520]

I've just discovered this website:

http://www.1s76.com/

A fascinating history of the InterCity Cross Country services that used to run between the south-east and the north. Some surprising locations that used to get at least 1 InterCity train a day. Eastbourne, Lewes, Dumfries, Annan.....

That brings back some memories from the early 90s.  When travelling home from school at weekends, from Oxford to Southfields (Underground, near Wimbledon), I once found a cross country train direct to Clapham Junction, so took it.  Going by the timetables in the above link, it must have been running late because I would have been leaving about Saturday lunchtime.  That would also explain why I never managed to catch it again.

Interestingly, back in those days, Southfields was also a BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) station (I think it even had the BR logo outside) but it had no mainline services.  I presume this was because BR empties would use the East Putney-Wimbledon section.  So you could actually buy a ticket from e.g. Oxford direct to Southfields, to the surprise of many ticket staff!  This worked well until, one day, I found myself with a ticket to Southfields station that was not valid for use on the Underground!  (You can't make it up...)  Next time I bought the ticket, I simply asked the ticket office to append a '+' symbol after the destination.  Problem solved! 

[paul7575]

Interestingly, back in those days, Southfields was also a BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) station (I think it even had the BR logo outside) but it had no mainline services.  I presume this was because BR empties would use the East Putney-Wimbledon section. 

Thread drift alarm sounds...

Yes - the East Putney to Wimbledon section wasn't 'sold' (and it was only a token amount apparently) to LU until around '95 in the run up to privatisation, and up until then the stations appeared to be BR run, but as you say with no service.  However even today the line is 'operated' by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) on behalf of LU, as the signalling is still to NR standards and controlled by Wimbledon ASC.  Oddly, the platforms in Wimbledon station used by LU are still owned by NR.  I'd be very surprised if NR weren't the responsible signalling maintainers as well - it would be unusual if there was a split responsibility.  Another oddity is that there are LU train stops on the stop signals, but SWT^▸ (South West Trains) don't have the train borne equipment - that goes against the popular belief that mainline stock cannot operate on LU without trip cocks being fitted.

Nowadays SWT still have a couple of passenger services that run over the route, (albeit at pretty unsocial times), mainly for route retention purposes, but at my last count there were also about 7 or 8 ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves during the interpeak period.  The main practical reason being that a train leaving Waterloo and heading down the main slow line through Earlsfield is on the wrong side of the tracks to get into Wimbledon Park depot, whereas a down train via Wandswoth Town, then East Putney and Southfields etc can be fitted into LU's offpeak timetable with little problem and obviously no crossing conflicts.

Once in a while during engineering work SWT have run a fairly frequent mainline service over the East Putney route - indeed a couple of years ago I did the route both ways - and LU ran a reduced service to make space for the diversions.  There is a major question mark over SWT's access though as the route is almost certainly going to be resignalled as part of the sub surface lines upgrade by 2018, and with an LU style ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation) system it is likely that SWT will no longer be welcome.

Paul

 

[Electric train]

Interestingly, back in those days, Southfields was also a BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) station (I think it even had the BR logo outside) but it had no mainline services.  I presume this was because BR empties would use the East Putney-Wimbledon section. 

Thread drift alarm sounds...

Yes - the East Putney to Wimbledon section wasn't 'sold' (and it was only a token amount apparently) to LU until around '95 in the run up to privatisation, and up until then the stations appeared to be BR run, but as you say with no service.  However even today the line is 'operated' by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) on behalf of LU, as the signalling is still to NR standards and controlled by Wimbledon ASC.  Oddly, the platforms in Wimbledon station used by LU are still owned by NR.  I'd be very surprised if NR weren't the responsible signalling maintainers as well - it would be unusual if there was a split responsibility.  Another oddity is that there are LU train stops on the stop signals, but SWT^▸ (South West Trains) don't have the train borne equipment - that goes against the popular belief that mainline stock cannot operate on LU without trip cocks being fitted.

Nowadays SWT still have a couple of passenger services that run over the route, (albeit at pretty unsocial times), mainly for route retention purposes, but at my last count there were also about 7 or 8 ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves during the interpeak period.  The main practical reason being that a train leaving Waterloo and heading down the main slow line through Earlsfield is on the wrong side of the tracks to get into Wimbledon Park depot, whereas a down train via Wandswoth Town, then East Putney and Southfields etc can be fitted into LU's offpeak timetable with little problem and obviously no crossing conflicts.

Once in a while during engineering work SWT have run a fairly frequent mainline service over the East Putney route - indeed a couple of years ago I did the route both ways - and LU ran a reduced service to make space for the diversions.  There is a major question mark over SWT's access though as the route is almost certainly going to be resignalled as part of the sub surface lines upgrade by 2018, and with an LU style ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation) system it is likely that SWT will no longer be welcome.

Paul

NR also provide all the traction power equipment, there was going to be a power supply segregation project so that NR London area conrail volts could be raise to 750 volts from the current 660 volts, to allow regen breaking and increased capacity on NR lines.   LU D stock can not handle the higher volts produced with regen peak of about 950 volts.  Common sense prevailed and the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) agreed to delay the NR regen until the new LU S stock enters service; leaving only the Waterloo & City line needing any new equipment to be installed in NR's W'loo substation

[paul7575]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) also provide all the traction power equipment, there was going to be a power supply segregation project so that NR London area conrail volts could be raise to 750 volts from the current 660 volts, to allow regen breaking and increased capacity on NR lines.   LU D stock can not handle the higher volts produced with regen peak of about 950 volts.  Common sense prevailed and the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) agreed to delay the NR regen until the new LU S stock enters service; leaving only the Waterloo & City line needing any new equipment to be installed in NR's W'loo substation

Interesting points - I'd seen that traction power segregation project in the CP4^▸ (Control Period 4 - the five year period between 2009 and 2014) enhancement plan & updates - presumably not doing it (for the two relevant sections of the District anyway) saves quite a few ^millions given the sort of costs for this type of kit...

Paul

[pbc2520]

Thanks for the background.  I suspect that any prospects of regular mainline services finally went with the removal of the bridge over Putney mainline for Wandsworth bound trains.  (On a positive note, there aren't houses on the trackbed yet.)

[Electric train]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) also provide all the traction power equipment, there was going to be a power supply segregation project so that NR London area conrail volts could be raise to 750 volts from the current 660 volts, to allow regen breaking and increased capacity on NR lines.   LU D stock can not handle the higher volts produced with regen peak of about 950 volts.  Common sense prevailed and the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) agreed to delay the NR regen until the new LU S stock enters service; leaving only the Waterloo & City line needing any new equipment to be installed in NR's W'loo substation

Interesting points - I'd seen that traction power segregation project in the CP4^▸ (Control Period 4 - the five year period between 2009 and 2014) enhancement plan & updates - presumably not doing it (for the two relevant sections of the District anyway) saves quite a few ^millions given the sort of costs for this type of kit...

Paul

In the order of ^20M

[paul7575]

Thanks for the background.  I suspect that any prospects of regular mainline services finally went with the removal of the bridge over Putney mainline for Wandsworth bound trains.  (On a positive note, there aren't houses on the trackbed yet.)

There's a chap suggesting this route as a solution to some SWML^▸ (South Western Mail Line) capacity issues in the latest 'Rail' mag (on the letters page); he reckons that a few main line slows should be diverted via this route into the International platforms.  But there's a major gap in his proposal, namely how to get the down line across to the down main slow somewhere between Wimbledon Park and Wimbledon.  Of course it needs yet another new flyover - which is basically why the route never got used for that purpose in the first place, and up trains would end up with two conflicting crossings of the down LU service...

Paul

[pbc2520]

There's certainly a case for SW trains to Southfields during the Wimbledon fortnight - maybe the AELTC can stump up some of the funding required to maintain mainline services after future resignalling?  (I'm fairly certain they can afford it!)  At other times, it would just be a very useful link to Wandsworth/Clapham/Vauxhall/Waterloo, even if the service only started at Wimbledon Park, avoiding the crossing issue you cite.