Possibility of 170 units for FGW?

[whole diary]

[Conner]

I've never travelled on a 170 but I have only ever heard praise for them but doubt they'll ever come down to Cornwall as they're unlikely to do BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI))-PNZ as they either go to Plymouth or Exmouth afterwards but it would free up some nice 158's for us.

[12hoursunday]

, if the latest RUMOUR is to believed,

AH! Railway Rumour

[martyjon]

, if the latest RUMOUR is to believed,

AH! Railway Rumour

Ahh, all this talk of 150's, 170's and 180's - tosh - yawn. WHEN I'm old enough to be driving trains I'll be driving a preserved Class 101 on the TransWilts Line on hire to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

[vacman]

The 170s on the Glasgow Edinburgh run are doubled up in the peak, so potentially 1 Cl 180 could replace 2 Cl 170 if the current demand is too great for 1 unit but leaves a second under capacity. They are superb units (having travelled on them very recently) and would be a huge improvement on the existing Cl 158s, both in terms of capacity and quality of interior (though I'll admit I haven't seen the refurbed Cl 158.)

This would seem a very sensible use of stock all round.   

If you want to see a 158 at it best travel on a SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158/159 which shows what you can do with them and how good they really can be; especially first class.

Scotrails 158's are of an equal standard, all of the English taxpayers money is spent on subsidising and improving Scotlands railways!

[mada]

I take it the 170's would go straight on Portsmouth to Cardiff?

2) The Class 170 units could end up displacing the Class 158 units currently operating on the Portsmouth - Cardiff route. Would those 158's then end up being sent to (say) Northern Rail , rather than boosting capacity elsewhere in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area?

If this happens I think we should organise a blockade at the entrance to the depot preventing them from departing for the north! I'm sick of decent trains leaving our area.

[vacman]

I think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have realised their mistakes by sending units off lease that they need! problem is, if they have more units then they need to pay for them so they need to attract more passengers which means that they will still be full!

[mada]

I think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have realised their mistakes by sending units off lease that they need! problem is, if they have more units then they need to pay for them so they need to attract more passengers which means that they will still be full!

But wouldn't that mean they'd just have to attract more people in Scotland on the heavily subsidised services which we pay for through the taxes in England anyway?? 

[grahame]

..... WHEN I'm old enough to be driving trains I'll be driving a preserved Class 101 on the TransWilts Line on hire to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

So they'll do well enough to have their franchise renewed in the middle of the next decade, then 

[Tim]

lets hope the rumours are true.

I travlled on the FSR^▸ (First Scot Rail) 170s a couple of months ago and they are very comfortable.  Three car 170s woudl certainly be better than 2 car 158s.  170s also have better accelaration and top speed (although presumably not when coupled to a 14x).  The downside is that they wear out the track faster and tehrefore attract a much higher access charge so they would cost FGW^▸ (First Great Western) more to run. 

If we do get 170s, T'd like to see them segregated from the 14xs.  I know that the ability to couple them together makes them more flexible but it just seems stupid to me to cripple a 100mph train by coupling it to a 75mph train.  I assume that the line speed of the route is at least 90mph in many places.

[vacman]

You say that but remember the 0624 Arriva service from Penzance to Manchester Picc/Milford Haven? that used to be a 158+153! restricted to 75MPH!

[Lee]

I assume that the line speed of the route is at least 90mph in many places.

Portsmouth - Cardiff line speed guide :

Portcreek Junction to St Denys Junction - 40 - 75 mph.
St Denys Junction to Wilton Junction - 80 - 105 mph.
Wilton Junction to Bathampton Junction - 40 - 75 mph.
Bathampton Junction to Bristol - 80 - 105 mph.
Bristol to Filton Junction - 40 - 75 mph.
Filton Junction - Severn Tunnel Junction - 80 - 105 mph.
Severn Tunnel Junction to Cardiff - either 40 - 75 mph or 80 - 105 mph depending on what line you are on.

There is also a 110 - 125 mph section from just outside Cardiff - Central station.

[Jim]

I assume that the line speed of the route is at least 90mph in many places.

Portsmouth - Cardiff line speed guide :

Portcreek Junction to St Denys Junction - 40 - 75 mph.
St Denys Junction to Wilton Junction - 80 - 105 mph.
Wilton Junction to Bathampton Junction - 40 - 75 mph.
Bathampton Junction to Bristol - 80 - 105 mph.
Bristol to Filton Junction - 40 - 75 mph.
Filton Junction - Severn Tunnel Junction - 80 - 105 mph.
Severn Tunnel Junction to Cardiff - either 40 - 75 mph or 80 - 105 mph depending on what line you are on.

There is also a 110 - 125 mph section from just outside Cardiff - Central station.

Wilton-Bath has a 85 section doesn'tit, in the Wyle area?

[Tim]

Thanks Lee, you are a mine of information.  The line speed are generally slower than I thought so a faster unit might not make a huge difference to journey times.

[martyjon]

, if the latest RUMOUR is to believed,

AH! Railway Rumour

Ahh, all this talk of 150's, 170's and 180's - tosh - yawn. WHEN I'm old enough to be driving trains I'll be driving a preserved Class 101 on the TransWilts Line on hire to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

..... WHEN I'm old enough to be driving trains I'll be driving a preserved Class 101 on the TransWilts Line on hire to FGW.

So they'll do well enough to have their franchise renewed in the middle of the next decade, then 

Not the next decade but the one after that as our young budding rail worker would only have just attained the age of double figures by the middle of the next decade.

Its not a question of doing well enough to have their franchise renewed, its who will pay the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) the biggest premium, some would call it bribe, to run the franchise after all its the tolerant passengers that would have to contribute to the said premium
.
However, if what I read in one of the Sundays over the past weekend that petrol might top ^1-50 a litre come Christmas and ^2-50 a litre by next the young lad wont be driving a heritage DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), he'll be firing a preserved pannier tank hauling 5 former FGW HST^▸ (High Speed Train) trailers between Westbury and Swindon on a shuttle. The trailers will of course have been modified with vacuum brakes and steam heating.

[vacman]

Or the pannier modified to have air brakes!, sorry, couldn't resist!