Loadings on lunchtime Fishguard "boat train", week before Christmas...?

[whole diary]

[inspector_blakey]

Here's the (slight) dilemma...I'm travelling from Heathrow to Whitland on 22 Dec. If all goes to plan (flight lands on time and the RailAir bus doesn't get hopelessly stuck in traffic) then I'm aiming to be on the 0911 Swansea service off Reading. I then have a choice - either change at Cardiff onto the 1057 Fishguard Harbour service, arriving Whitland 1245, or change at Swansea onto a Pembroke Dock service which arrives 1306.

Does anyone have any idea what the loadings are likely to be like on the FGH train, given that this is the train that connects with the lunchtime Rosslare ferry? Since it's a few days before Christmas I wonder if it's likely to be busy. I'll have just tipped off an overnight flight and will be carrying bags, so if it's going to be mad busy I'll change at Swansea and arrive a few minutes later in the interests of a less stressful journey. When I've taken the boat train before in the summer it was bedlam, even as a four-car loco-hauled set, and that's an experience I'm not too keen to repeat!

[anthony215]

It will depnd on  if there are any major events on in Cardiff.

I suspect it may be busy but not extremely busy since the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service to Swansea would have left about 7-8 minutes before it.

The stock is normally 1 of the 2 class 150's (Although it is supposed to be booked for a class 158) which comes into platform 4 with the 10:39 arrival from Bridgend where the train is split with 1 unit forming the 10:51 departure to Treherbert via the Cardiff cityline.


At that time of morning however I think you should just about be ok however the 15:14 service from Cardiff - Fishguard is now very busy with a lot of people traveling to Fishguard and spending a few hours at Fishguard town before making their way to the harbour to get the ferry to Rosslare.

[inspector_blakey]

The 1057 only calls Llanelli and Whitland, so there shouldn't be any people on it for stations to Swansea (and if there are they will be sorely disappointed...). My main concern is that it might be rammed with passengers travelling to Ireland on the ferry for Christmas.

That said, the fact that it's a 150 might be a clincher - I'd rather stay on the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Swansea then have (in all likelihood) a 153 from there to Whitland than spend nearly two hours on a 150.

[anthony215]

Maybe a good idea to go on the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Swansea and get the Pembroke dock train however be warned the Pembroke dock trains can also get very busy especially if they are formed of a class 153 and lately more pacers have been appearing on the Pembroke Dock/Swansea/Fishguard diagrams

[phile]

Best catch 10 57 at Cardiff but would get an earlier London to make sure of connectio.    Iy is diagrammed a 150/2 and not a 158

[inspector_blakey]

Earlier train isn't an option for two reasons - firstly "wheels down" at Heathrow is 0700, so I reckon allowing for immigration/retrieving bags/waiting for RailAir/travel time 0911 at Reading is the first realistic departure, and secondly that's the first train that allows off-peak tickets.

I don't really care which train I get, was just pondering which might lead to the more comfortable journey. Given that 150s have zero luggage space and I'll have a case with me, although it's marginally quicker I'm more inclined to change onto the PMD service at SWA^» (Swansea - next trains). That's where the train originates so assuming the London service is in on time I'll have 17 minutes to play with, so hopefully good chance of getting a seat even if it's busy.

[Rhydgaled]

The boat train (eastbound) always seems to be very well loaded (perhaps not quite, or just reaching, standing room only) when I've seen/used it. Considering your comment about crowds when it was 4-car LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock), the passenger numbers must have dropped significantly since there is not much standing on the 150. I guess for the anyone who does have to stand, they'll be standing for hours. I don't think I've ever seen it with anything but a 150 (although on one occasion when I caught it there was a 153 attached). A 150 is really, really inappropriate stock for the ONLY express service to/from south-west Wales. They should use a 158 or 2x 153 in my opinion.

Iy is diagrammed a 150/2 and not a 158

Is that supposed to be 'it' rather than 'Iy'? If so, is that offical information and if so could you reveal any more diagram information? From observations alone, it certainly seems to be booked for a 150. That said, ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) used to have a photograph of the LHCS that used to run the Fishguard on their website with the caption saying the Fishguard service was now booked for a 158.

it is supposed to be booked for a class 158.

If this is really the case, where the hell are those 158s! If not, whyever do they book it for such woefully inappropriate units as 150s yet diagram 158s on Maesteg - Cardiff shuttles? (Cardiff - Cheltenham is ok-ish territory for a 158, but 158s on Cardiff - Maesteg when the Fishguard Flyer is landed with a 150 is just plain wrong)

[Chris from Nailsea]

Some posts from this topic, which were going rather off-topic, have now been split off and moved to a new topic on the lighter side ... 

[Jez]

If you are planning on getting the Pembroke Dock service and want to make sure room for luggage be warned they do used 150s and even pacers on Pemb Dock trains not always 153s (although I think pacers are mainly used on Saturdays).

I thought most Maestegs were 150s now? Dont see that many 158s on the line. it would be interesting to know how many 150s are used compaired to 158s. I heard that of the 24 158s that ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) have only 9 are available for use on journeys outside of the Cambrian line. So 9 available to be used if needed for Maesteg-Cheltenham, West Wales-Cardiff/Manchester, Cardiff-Holyhead)

[anthony215]

The number of 158's on theMaesteg - Cheltenham  route seems to vary each day. I have seen days when the majority of services are worked by class 158's with a single 150 on other days its the opposite, however I have seen pacers and even a single 153 turn up once (Felt sorry for those traveling on it to Gloucester/Cheltenham)

[phile]

CF317 Diagram which is a 150/2.    The 158  Diagrams are in the 6XX series.       Sorry, I did mean "it" but obviously failed to check properly.   The previous workings involve working to Merthyr in the Cardiff Valleys and 158s not permitted.

[Rhydgaled]

If you are planning on getting the Pembroke Dock service and want to make sure room for luggage be warned they do used 150s and even pacers on Pemb Dock trains not always 153s (although I think pacers are mainly used on Saturdays).

I thought Pacers were only used on Pembroke Dock trains in the summer high season, but that's only based on what I've read on here and other rail fourms.

I thought most Maestegs were 150s now? Dont see that many 158s on the line. it would be interesting to know how many 150s are used compaired to 158s.

The service is a mix of 158s and 150s yes, not exclusivly one or the other. However ANY 158 workings on the Maesteg branch at the expence of one on the Fishguard boat train is rather poor in my opinion.

I heard that of the 24 158s that ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) have only 9 are available for use on journeys outside of the Cambrian line. So 9 available to be used if needed for Maesteg-Cheltenham, West Wales-Cardiff/Manchester, Cardiff-Holyhead

Interesting, I thought there was only, on average, 2 on Maesteg and 1 on Holyhead-Cardiff, with the rest on the Cambrian curcuit. If I'm wrong and that's nine 158s in service away from the Cambrian daily, how many are used on Cambrian, and how many are out for maintenance / available as spares in case of failures?

CF317 Diagram which is a 150/2.    The 158  Diagrams are in the 6XX series... The previous workings involve working to Merthyr in the Cardiff Valleys and 158s not permitted.

Thanks, that confirms that. Since you seem to have access to the diagrams, could you please provide evidence to confirm one way or the other whether there is a unit sitting at Swansea from 13:04 until 17:10 that could be used for running services? I get that impression because the set which does the 07:09 Pembroke Dock - Swansea doesn't seem to go anywhere, but I read on this fourm that the unit forms a service up HOWL which means the unit that comes down the HOWL and terminates in Swansea at 13:04 then has nowhere to go. What I've read on here is that unit then sits in Swansea until it forms the 17:10 Swanline service to Cardiff.

[Jez]

I also thought pacers on Pembroke Dock were only used in Summer season but it was mentioned on here one is booked on Saturdays - ditto the swanline that does not interact with the Heart of Wales line also on Saturdays. Not sure tho as dont get to Swansea enough to see all Pemb Dock services.

A 153 is definately sat at Swansea from 13xx until 1710, ive seen that many times. The 1310 Swanline is always a 150 as well whilst before the timetable change it was usually a 153.

I thought Maesteg was now mainly 150 with a few 158 diagrams. Could just be the times ive seen it tho. A 158 being used on Maesteg which isnt a mainline service at the expense of other services is, IMO^▸ (in my opinion), poor. A Pacer or 150 would be sufficient.

9 diagrams being used outside the Cambrian is what ive heard from someone who uses the railway, nothing official. But that would mean 15 on cambrian. It would make sense to use 150s on Maesteg rather than 158s as 158s are more suited to longer distance routes. Im not sure what the 158s would be used on outside of Cambrian, but there always seems to be a few free to be used on the Manchester/Holyheads from South Wales if needed.

[phile]

Yes, correct 153 sits at Swansea.   There are 4 Maesteg to Cheltenham diagrams with 3/4 booked 158 and the other 150 due 158 vice 175 for 2nd WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) Express.   In practice, 158s are frequently not available so 150s or even Pacers cover.    Much of this has already been established earlier in the thread some weeks ago.
Yes, Pacers occasionally get to Fishguard but I would not like to travel in one if there has been a rough crossing across the Irish Sea !!!

[inspector_blakey]

From experience over the years the daytime Fishguard boat train is one of the most unpredictable trains on the system in terms of what might turn up. Of course there were the halcyon of the loco-hauled services using 50s or 37s, but those aside I travelled on it as a 142 (I think, although that may have been a Milford service), 143, 150, pair of 153s, 158 and a 158 that became a 150 from Carmarthen after it started raining inside the driver's cab one foul wintry night. I think that represents more or less anything possible from the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) rolling stock pool apart from the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) sets, 121 and the 175s.