Great Western Coffee Shop

Within the UK Rail Forums website I have seen mentions of a 'Project (or Operation) Churchward' - which apparently concerns the wholesale replacement of existing GWR regional rolling stock with a single 'one design fits all' train - but interweb searches produce no other references.

There's a very brief reference to it on page 15 of the GWR Stakeholder briefing of last November on the TWSW web site:
http://travelwatchsouthwest.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/TWSW-Oct22.pptx

Stadler FLIRTs please.

Single manufacturer with a 30 years maintain and support contract is the approach DfT have been taking

Indeed.  Preferably the tri-mode version.

Cascade the IETs to regional services, scrapping them is far too expensive.
Build proper inter city trains for the routes presently suffering IETs.

Quoting a member - "oooooooooooooooos gonna pay for it"

Isn’t the point of an investment that you get more money back than you put in? So the question should, perhaps, be - “ooooooooooooooooos gonna pocket the profit”

Latest suggestions is that GWR are to take on the class 175s to allow the final class 255s hsts to be withdrawn as well as to allow and internal cascade of stock such as  the 150s for the Devon and Cornwall metro services, 165s for metrowest around Bristol and 158s to increase capacity on Cardiff to Portsmouth hbr services

175s going to Exeter in place of 158s is doing the rounds on websites.  Problem with them they will not increase capacity at Barnstaple (if a 3 car 175) or Okehampton (if a 2 car 175).  Inevitably some will end up  Paignton-Exmouth as do the 158s. Also they would have to be cleared to Axminster especially if the service is increased.

If a five car (2+3)  is used at Barnstaple to increase capacity, could it still reverse at Exmouth siding.

Two 150 units would be released from Okehampton, but they will probably be needed in Cornwall so Paignton-Exmouth will still need turbos.

Bet they'll look lovely in green though :-)

I've been told this by a few people who are usually pretty spot on.

No doubt dft have realised they can get a good deal abd can reduce costs by replacing castle hsts and dont need to refurbish the 175s as tfw already did it. It also frees up class 150/158/165's to  boost capacity on other routes such as Cardiff to Portsmouth hbr  and metro West services around Bristol. 150/2's can be boost capacity in Cornwall etc.

There was talk of seated Barnstaple services possibly worked by a pair of 2 carriage class 175s


Edit to clarify quoting - grahame

Interesting to see the talk about the 175s.  Surely it's more 158s and 150s from Wales that we need?  The 175s would need to be route cleared and then there are the additional complications of managing another quite small fleet of trains.  I'd be surprised to see this happen.

I think the idea is to replace the 158s at Exeter so they would still only maintain 2 fleets with 165/166s stabling at Exeter as they do now but maintained at Bristol.

Of course, we'll see in time.   If the 175s come to Exeter, as well as route clearance, all the crews will need to be trained on them and Exeter Depot staff will need to be trained on how to maintain them, as well as have a stock of spares on hand.   None of it is impossible but it would be a big investment (in time and money) that could be avoided if some of the Welsh 158s and 150s come our way instead.

Am I correct in thinking that class 175s cannot work in multiple with class 150/158s? If so, this is a problem, and I would agree with Richard B that class 158s would be preferable.

I also wonder (idle speculation from a layman) whether one of the problems with stock availability is that 165/166s cannot work with 150/158s so swapping out failed units is often not possible.

Correct, 15x and 175s cannot couple up. It used to cause chaos on the Marches if an 15x needed help and the only unit within 50 miles was an 175.

And regarding the TfW 15x going to GWR. 158s can't due to the ETRMS fitment and wouldn't be ironic if the ex Wessex 150/2s returned to Exeter.

Unfortunately they are due C6 exams and Portercrook won't pay for those.

It struck me that the Cambrian Coast 158s have a lot of £££ signalling stuff on them which wouldn't be much use elsewhere, but they can run elsewhere, surely - they do at the moment.   And if some new trains are ETRMS fitted, what else will be done with them?

The ETRMS fitment was not originally part of the trains, it was a later add-on, so in theory can be unbolted and taken off again.  Yes it would be more work (and more cost) to make them GWR spec, but it is not impossible.


On another note, the latest version of the DfT procurement pipeline spreadsheet, has the GWR project Churchward DMU replacement with slightly earlier date than those for Northern.  Confusing me because Northern have issued a tender, but to best of my knowledge GWR haven't.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/future-commercial-contracts-for-dft-and-partners

The estimated contract start dates are now 9th Jan 2026 for GWR, 2nd March 2026 for Northern DMUs and 27th May 2026 for Northern EMUs, battery EMUs and multi mode MUs

Can anyone enlighten me what is going on.

I thought GWR were trying to do a joint order with Chiltern and East West rail unless the dft have decided they can get GWR some new rolling stock before then by tagging some onto Northerns.

EWR aren't ordering stock - they are simply building the rails for the DfT.

Chiltern have just been confirmed as the operator & have 6 Cl 196s for phase 1 of EWR services. They are going to need extras for phase 3, not sure about phase 2 (Bedford)