Great Western Coffee Shop

... one Ros Atkins, a BBC news editor reports via ex-twitter. (He was on the bus, driver got lost.)

People from the bus are now at Plymouth, but the train they intended to be on is now east of Totnes. It's raining heavily. Oh and the GWR Twitter account has closed for the evening owing to staff sickness, but there'll surely be staff at Plymouth, yes?

Mark

Update: passengers put aboard the 20:20 to Exeter.

Mark

Update: the train manager of the Plymouth - Exeter took details of final destinations from everyone. The 21:17 Exeter to Bristol was held to allow passengers to connect into it.

Mark

Update: passengers for onward destinations off the Bristol train at Taunton.

Mark

(Edit)... to await a special service formed from a train from Paddington that is terminating at Taunton. But that in itself is now delayed inbound at Cogload Junction...

Ross Atkins Twitter/X feed of the journey
https://x.com/bbcrosatkins/status/1723419394406064407?s=61&t=VlafMC5gF9tidw36b1Y8JQ

And at Paddington
https://x.com/bbcrosatkins/status/1723511019706679312?s=61&t=VlafMC5gF9tidw36b1Y8JQ

Whew. Really wondered what was going to happen there but GWR really came through on this one and put a service together from Taunton to run through to Paddington.

Looks to be this one but something odd's happened to the data as the times from Taunton aren't right. The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04481/2023-11-11/detailed#allox_id=1

Why didn't they just hold the train at Plymouth until the bus arrived, given it was the last train?

It seems like the service from Exeter was the 2116 held for the arrival of the coach.
Transferred into the 1Z31 to Bristol, which was to have worked as the 5C31 to Stoke Gifford.
The 1A40 was held at Temple Meads to allow passengers from the 1Z31 to have a cross platform connection to London
However, if you look at the ecs move of the 5C31 from Bristol to Stoke Gifford it left from p11, the same platform as 1A40 arrived so it seems that the 1Z31 ran through to Paddington as the 1A40 from Bristol!

Would like to think that GWR would do the same for us ordinary mortals, but wonder if this was someone 'special'.
Full marks for the Guard/Train Manager (s) involved, and to control for arranging something that worked.
Wonder if the RRB controller had a note of the number of vehicles travelling to Plymouth, and why they weren't counted in, thus involving delaying the last Plymouth departure.
Many (not all) service vehicles have radio's fitted, but we're now told we cannot answer (or call) when the vehicle is in motion.
We have to pull over and switch off, then we can use the radio or mobile phone.  That of course, delays the process even longer.

The RRB vehicles involved have come from the Midlands, East Anglia and all points down, so local route knowledge would be thin amongst the visiting drivers. Fully understandable the driver getting lost if he wasn't local.
Standard fitting of Sat Navs in coaches, etc doesn't currently exist.

Perhaps the train crew and and any dispatchers at Plymouth hadn't realised they were missing a bus?  Or perhaps, with a train terminating at Taunton and running back - at least as far as Stoke Gifford - empty, perhaps they chose the lower cost and more customer friendly option.   So delay-repay just for the people from that bus rather than the entire custom of the 20:20 from Plymouth including intermediate traffic

How long after 20:20 did the bus eventually arrive?

Looks like they got to Plymouth at 20:10 - I am happy to be corrected however I believe that the service they would have got had the bus been on time was the 19:50 - the last direct service - surely it could have waited for 20 minutes to avoid the odyssey they ultimately had to undertake?

I don't think it would be right to hold a train for 20+ minutes for a bus.  What about onward connections people already on board the 19:50 might have had at Exeter, Bristol, Swindon or Reading?

If a bus has gone MIA it's not easy to know exactly when it might arrive - traffic near the station, another wrong turn etc., so I think you have to draw the line somewhere and make alternative arrangements (as was done).  That decision needs to take into account the number of passengers already on the train and the number of passengers on board the bus wanting to connect and what their destinations are.  Neither of which know - though Mark said "The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them." - but generally I think that line should be drawn at much less than 20 minutes.

Had it been a late running train from Penzance (as opposed to a bus) which meant that the connection to the last London train was going to be missed by those on board, what would have been the routine in that scenario?

Interesting question.

The TM on the Penzance train would have been able to do an accurate headcount, and the precise location of the train and therefore an accurate ETA would be much easier to determine.  All of which might sway the decision in the favour of a train hold.  Though a hold of over 20 minutes for a mainline train is quite rare IME, especially when an alternative route by train can be provided as it was in this case.

What I don't understand in these situations, whether the delay is by bus or train, is:

a) Why clear reasons for delaying the onward train aren't made known to the passengers sitting on it, who are wondering why it hasn't set off. I've been in that situation a few times, and often there have been no announcements at all (or any staff in sight).

b) Why the TM doesn't then go down the train straight away and ask passengers if they are dependent on connections being made.

I am sure Froome and I are not the only ones to wonder. Over many years commuting and casual rail travel, it is striking how variable the practice is. Surely it should be a matter of staff training to ensure that it is invariable practice? I am aware that sometimes there was a "we can't get hold of Control" problem, but those who work there should likewise be so trained.

I should add that the last time I was in a similar situation to this was about 2 months ago, when I caught a train at Bristol Temple Meads, which was due to go to Bath Spa (where I was headed) and then all stations down to Portsmouth. At the time of departure its doors closed, and then nothing. No movement, no announcements, no sign of any staff on the train. After a while I got up and walked down the train to find someone to ask, and found no staff anywhere. I went back to my seat, and a few minutes later (about 15 minutes after it should have departed) I realised that there was another train due to leave in a few minutes which would have taken me to my local station (Oldfield Park), so better for me. I tried to open the doors but they wouldn't open. Other passengers did the same, and several of us knocked on the windows to try to alert the platform staff, but they just looked at us as if we were in a zoo, and did nothing. Just as the train to Oldfield Park was about to go, the doors opened (again no announcement) and a few people got out, but by that time it was too late to catch the Oldfield Park train, so I got back in, and a few minutes later (about 25 minutes all told) the train left. I don't think any announcement made in the whole journey, and no staff appeared by the time I got off in Bath.

It was frankly appalling, and I still have no idea why the train was delayed.

The first time I had an issue even remotely similar to this was towards the last of the BR days. I was in Manchester and arrived at Piccadilly to board a train to Euston at around 17:30. Then there was an issue with that train showing on the display board as cancelled. Then they made a tannoy announcement that there was a problem with the Overhead lines just past Rugby. if you were travelling to London and already in the station then you would be taken to London. If you weren’t already in the station then they weren’t letting you in if you were going to London or places towards there on the WCML. In the first instance we were told to run to platform 13 or 14 where a train to Cardiff was waiting. That train was so full it made the London Underground in Rush hour look empty. Someone squeezed on but the rest of us walked back towards the main concourse.


Then we were told to wait for instructions and at about 7pm we boarded a train to Crewe. The idea was another train would meet us at Crewe. We waited at Crewe and eventually, it was a long wait, an HST appeared with a which was a very welcome sight. We boarded that, got to Rugby and had about half an hour to forty five minutes waiting at the platform there. We were not allowed off because the train could leave at any minute once it got clearance. The bloke at the buffet made announcements about his remaining stock twice, once to say he was out of food, and the second to say all the alcohol had now been sold. The guard came round and asked for people’s tickets and any onward destinations from their ticket station and said onward transportation would be provided especially at Euston. He said to me that some people were going a hell of a long way after Euston and I was a short hop. When we eventually arrived in London which was just after 1am from memory the next day, we were told to head to the taxi rank. A staff member walked the length of the line checking where you were going and then grouped people together. I was heading to West London and was put with four others in a Black Cab which duly left.

I asked the others where they were going and they said the South West. They were heading to Penzance supposedly on the sleeper but that train had left ages ago. The cabbie was taking them all the way there and he told me getting a good deal out of this. He said that he had family in the West Country and had called them when BR had put a call out for Taxis. He said he’d drive down there, drop the others off, go to the wife’s sister’s house and get a good sleep there before driving back.

BR were very good for those of us already in the station but if you weren’t already in there I suspect you were left to fend for yourself.

I don’t think he got lost as such.
A38 was shut due to truck hitting trerulefoot bridge, I was stuck on my way home from work, even on a Saturday night it managed it gridlock the diversion route- narrow lane only normally used by high sided vehicles to avoid the low bridge