Great Western Coffee Shop

If you travel on the First Great Western Night Riviera Sleeper you'll be treated to a free copy of Daphne du Maurier's Rebecca (link below.)
http://firstlatewestern.blogspot.com/2007/08/thoughts-on-du-mauriers-manderleyor.html

First Great Western has announced that as part of a ^200 million package of investment , it is updating its Sleeper Service , also known as the Night Riviera Sleeper , which runs between Penzance and London Paddington (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/NewsItem.aspx?id=541

The contract to carry out the work , which is worth ^2,000,000 has been awarded to Railcare in Wolverton. Michael Rodber,  who has worked for Porsche and Eurostar and was responsible for designing First Great Western's new look High Speed Trains (HSTs) that were introduced earlier this year , has been tasked with creating a refreshed interior that is more akin to a hotel room than a train carriage.

Work has already started on upgrading the 17 carriages and is expected to be completed by March 2008.

As long as the beds don't go high density!

Does the "more akin to a hotel room than a train carriage." mean a mini bar in every berth ?

Does anybody have any info on whats happening to the seated sleeper carriages as I have seen one in new livery so I think its refurb but FGW arent' publising it.

There are 'refreshed' sleeper coachs in traffic, expect they are waiting for a full set to be complete before doing the normal 'we are great' press launch.

Only one Ive seen was a first class seating coach and although I was a bit drunk at the time I think they are the old HST first class seats but covered in the new trim.....

Yeh it was a first class seating coach but as t was from a HST window I couldn't really see much- only got to see it because it was unusually parked in the sidings at Long Rock instead of in the shed.

First Class is nice

http://www.rollingstock.fotopic.net/p46358354.html

Don't know why they couldn't have done that with the HST first class seats rather than pay millions for the new leather seats as these look really nice.

They really do look like the OLD FGW MK3 FC seats!

Thats because they are...?

Indeed, much better than the leather replacement IMO!

Following this mornings DSD failure on last nights down sleeper from Paddington, tonights Up Riviera Sleeperr will be hauled by a heritage locomotive, 47805.

The BRUSH fans WILL be burning the midnight oil tonight.   

22:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:25
This train has been revised.
The Full Sleeper service will start from Plymouth. A HST will operate for the Penzance to Plymouth part of the journey.

They are re-covered HST FC seats.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1555 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1555)
It is now possible to buy tickets for the sleeper service online, something that has been missing for years.

Can someone clarify for me whether the Penzance sleeper has first class seating coaches available? I phoned FGW and their response was rather contradictory.

Also, are there any complimentaries?  ;D

......

http://www.rollingstock.fotopic.net/p46358354.html

"The refresh includes a new external livery to the trains, new internal colour scheme and lighting, reupholstered First Class style seating throughout the seated carriages, new carpets, taps and blinds, better quality linen and towels."

"Our range of services for Night Riviera Sleeper customers
We have a range of services to make your journey a comfortable and relaxing experience:

    * There is a dedicated Service Leader to provide an at-seat food and drink service in the Lounge Car.
    * The Sleeper berths are air-conditioned for your comfort.
    * You can have a morning wake up call with complimentary refreshments.
    * We offer a complimentary newspaper and breakfast for all First Class customers.
    * You can use the First Class lounge on arrival into London Paddington.
    * Complimentary refreshments are provided for all Sleeper berth customers in the lounge.
    * There are showers available for Sleeper berth customers upon arrival at London Paddington.
    * There is a dedicated Customer Host on-hand to answer any queries and to ensure a comfortable and safe journey.

Buffet service
There is a buffet service on-board to provide you with a range of food and drinks. View our Food and Drink menus for more information."

I don't trust the FGW website!  ;D

Actually, I find it very informative at times (link below, 19 November 2007) :
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/NewsItem.aspx?id=570


See also link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2076.msg15541#msg15541

Just to note, tonight's 2345 Paddington to Penzance sleeper is revised tonight. Overcrowding comes to the sleeper?  ;) :D

This train has been revised.
This service will today be formed of 3 Sleeper Carriages instead of 4.

Well it doesn't lie.

I assure you there is seated First Class seating!!

All seating is "first class" but you dont need a first class ticket to sit in it! the old MKIII first class seats have been fitted to the day cars, albeit reuphulstered, so don't bother buying a first class ticket!

A wise move by FGW I think, as nice as the old seats are the first class ones provide much more room.

And god are they good for dossing in!

Why do they label the seats "First Class" if you don't need  first class ticket?

It is all First Class until May but standard may sit in it as there is no Standard Class.
For more info check out the latest issue of Go To magazine, it says.
From 18 May all Sleeper berths will be sold as one Standard level of accomadation. You will still be able to book single or twin berths. All sleeper berths include Continetial Breakfast. All seating accomodation will be Standard Class.

In a way, it is a shame the old GW trains livery is going....

I mean, it's not as if we need any more dynamic lines, is it?

Yes actually, although I love the Green/Gold Fag Packet livery, one brand and livery across services is definatly the way to go. And the dynamic lines IMO is brilliant.

Normal Night Riveria Sleeper formation is, (note: all MKIII stock)
Coach A TSO (Tourist Standard Open)
Coach B BFO (Brake First Open)
Coach C RFO (Restuarant First Open)
Coach J 1St Class Sleeper
Coach K Std Single Berth Sleeper
Coach L Std Twin Berth Sleeper
Coach X  "      "       "        "     (Friday Night Only Down/Sunday night only up).

However it has been seen running with 2 BFO vice the TSO on some nights.

IIRC the ^10 First Class up grade can be obtained EVERY night in coach B.

Yes it can but who would as all seats are First Class now.
From May formation will be:
Coach A TSO(Tourist Standard Open)
Coach B BSO(Brake Standard Open)
Coach C RSO(Restuarant Standard Open)
Coach ? Single Berth Sleeper
Coach ? Single Berth Sleeper
Coach ? Twin Berth Sleeper
Coach ? Twin Berth Sleeper (Not All Trains)
This is what I can grasp it will be from Go To magazine, Coach letters for sleepers have been left off as they may be D/E/F/G or they may be J/K/L/X.

If that is correct - then the point of first class berths on the sleeper are pointless, and people will be able to save ^110+ on the FC fare by purchasing a SOR or a SVR, sorry, Anytime or Off Peak return ticket! A FOR is currently ^373, a SVR is currently ^75. Hmm, bargain... I'm surprised FGW aren't keeping a differing level of 'service' (not that I experienced any different, a breakfast of orange juice and a biscuit is nothing on par with FSRs offer of a fruit salad, bacon or egg roll and a shortbread biscuit as well) for FC customers by the looks of it.

I beleive all the single berths are the same, all you pay for is additional service and free food/drink/paper.
But a single berth is more expensive than a twin berth.

You what?

From the National Fares Manual...

Sleeper Berth supplements - First Great Western services

These supplements are not available in conjunction with
Advance Purchase tickets, only walk-up tickets (i.e. Saver,
Open). Sleeper Inclusive Advance Purchase tickets are
available on journeys between the South West of England and
selected stations in the London & South East area. Fares are
listed in sections B and C, ticket types SB, SC, SD, SG, SH, SI,
SJ, SK, SL, SM, SN, SO.

First Class supplement
^45^00 per cabin
Includes Welcome Pack, hot evening drink, breakfast and
newspaper.

Standard Class supplement
^30^00 per berth in a Double cabin
^40^00 per berth in a Single cabin
Includes Welcome Pack, morning tea or coffee and biscuits.
Charges are payable for each journey made by Sleeper, even if
no advance reservation has been made.

A valid ticket for the journey must be shown when booking
sleeper accommodation. Advance Purchase tickets are not
valid, only walk up tickets.

For issuing instructions, please refer to the Retail Manual Part
Two/Rail Directory for Travel Agents Part One.

^5 covers the differences between Standard Single and First Class, cabins are the same, makes perfect sense to me.

Except Conner, in my experience, the difference is nil between FC and SC... I could have saved myself ^10 by getting a standard class single cabin!

The NFM states I get a "welcome pack" - ok, that was formed of a few leaflets and some toiletries. OK so far. Hot evening drink, err, no - both times I got nothing after getting in the cabin. Breakfast - formed of a biscuit and some orange juice on the way back, and some coffee and a few biscuits on the way there from what I recall. Oh, and a newspaper which I don't remember getting either!!

You definatly wasted your money.
I think it makes more sense having one class sleepers as you can't really get a better cabin like you can with a seat.
You could even risk it with a twin, my Uncle did once and had it all to himself and noted that his carriage was pretty empty.

I feel a complaint to FGW coming on ...  :D

The thing about twins, you've got to get on and/or off at obscure locations to guarantee you get it to yourself.... for instance if it called at St Budeaux, get on there, then get off at Reading!

Although you can't get a better cabin really, you can get a better service. You certainly do on ScotRail, room service! :)

My uncle was booked PAD-PNZ although he got off at Camborne.

Is it a Wise move?

I checked out the Sleeper the other night and Yes the Standard class Day Car has been fitted with First Class seats, but this means a Reduction in seats of about 30%. Not funny when the Day cars are FULL!

And it's more than full when Ryan Air Cancel their last flight from Newquay leaving would be Flyers to MAKE THERE OWN WAY HOME.

I would say that Single and Twin berths are a massive Step forward, Why pay First Class for a cabin that is the Same as a Standard single Cabin?

Why pay first class fares ... hmm, perhaps due to the additional extras that you get. After all, it's the little bits that count. (and it can all add up).

I think FGW could do well if they modified their service to more reflect their sister company ScotRail.

Due to engineering work on Wednesday 23 April 2008, the London Paddington to Penzance sleeper service will not be available to board until 2330 (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=2453

Thinking of getting down to Cornwall using this service. Unfortunatly the CSA I deal with at Reading not too clued up on it. Please in normal person speak can some one explain what the trains are like. For instance do I need to book 1st class if i want some conform and peace or are all seats confortable and reclining? Would I need to book specific seats when booking ticket? If I got on at Reading would this place me at a disadvantage? Are they likely to be packed?  :P

ALL seated coaches have First Class seats (2+1 with collosal table, curtains etc), so go standard class and don't waste your money!!

Pic of interior: http://midlandscotterz.fotopic.net/p49285167.html

After May the sleeper will be Standard Class only.
You will get a seat if you book Advance Purchase as you will have a reservation.

Railway bosses are poised to relaunch the once threatened Penzance to London sleeper train thanks to "people power".

Charles Howeson, chairman of First Great Western, has revealed to the WMN plans to unveil the refurbished service under the new name of the Night Riviera Express on June 23.

See http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=141507&command=displayContent&sourceNode=257390&home=yes&more_nodeId1=257393&contentPK=20728306

should never have been 'under threat'. Such a constantly well used service would be a blow to the region if it was ended.
Always busy, never enough berths sundays/fridays in either direction and bank holidays - well, book well ahead!

Well, since around 8000 of us - including a lot of contributors to the forum - got together to try and save the service, it seems to have gone from strength to strength! I have to give FGW credit for the way they've handled the sleeper in recent times - they've done a lot of research to find what passengers want, and they're starting to respond with the likes of a proper breakfast onboard and so on.

What's really good news is that they've added a fifth sleeper coach on busy nights, and I'm told that if loadings carry on rising, they may have to look into generating a business case within the next 12-18 months for a sixth! I think that's a real tribute to the quality of the service, and the excellent staff who look after snoozing passengers. For once, it's good news on GW - let's hope it continues and that we don't have to fight to save the train in another few years!

Andy Roden

Launch train Monday 23rd June: 1Z08 15:08 Penzance to Plymouth calling major stations. ECS back.

Video from BBC Spotlight SouthWest about the relaunch:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7470329.stm

(What you don't see is the presenter introducing the video and getting in the "MPs thought FGW was the worst operator on the planet" comment  ::))

Favourite quote from the video: "They've apparently done 'something' to the breaks to make it a smoother journey"... quality reporting  ::)

A couple of points from me (cue groans from the other moderators!  ;D)

Describing FGW in the press these days apparently involves the obligatory use of the phrase "Under fire train company FGW ...".  For goodness sake!  Why not try to be impartial and just describe them (at least initially) as "Local train operating company FGW ... " ?

And there are some very high quality reporters around, in my personal opinion: for example, among our members here in the coffee shop!  ;) :D ;D

Perhaps they could get jobs with the BBC then  ???  ;D

I'm not so concerned with the BBC - it's the various local newspapers, who all seem to have a presumption that FGW are still suffering the same problems / low public esteem that they clearly were, back in January.  Things have moved on since then - FGW certainly have - and that's why I think it's not fair to keep starting every article in the local papers now with a pre-emptive dismissal of FGW as a 'failing' train company.


(Posted by me personally: my opinions are not necessarily those of FGW  ;) )

I think its mainly a case of that "bad news" will always sell papers, and "good news" (although featured more than people realise) will not always get the level of coverage that perhaps it merits.

From my perspective, one of the things that has greatly improved is that, if I raise an issue of importance to the Coffee Shop or CANBER, Andrew Haines will always ensure that I get a speedy and detailed response, either from him personally or the person responsible for the matter. Frankly, this is in stark contrast to how things were before he came along.

There have also been welcome moves towards improvements on several lines/services (TransWilts being a notable exception.)

However, FGW remain gaffe-prone, and when things do go wrong, they tend to go wrong in spectacular fashion, the debacles over the Exeter ticket promotion and the Free Severn Beach Line service cancellations being good examples. Errors like this could be avoided, and FGW still (in my opinion) have work to do on this front.

Here is a view from the I Hate FGW blog author, in which she notes (with caution) that things have improved (link below.)
http://www.canber.co.uk/?q=node/29

Have used the sleeper last 3 Wednesday nights from Padd to Exeter and will be doing same journey each week for the foreseeable future. Always book a seat in advance and pay only ^12, although have paid ^20.50 once, which is still a bargain.

Love the ex-HST 1st class seats, very comfortable and have heard other passengers say the same. Staff all very friendly and the train has a 'happy' feel to it, other than the occasional moaning old git who seems to be expecting 110 mph all the way to Bodmin or wherever....

Have noticed that there are always a lot more seats reserved than actual passengers on board (although there has still been a healthy number of people traveling) so my question is, are these 'no-shows' included in the usage figures? After all, they have paid to use the service and thus technically last night's (seated) service was 90% full, not bad for a Wednesday!

Can anyone in the know shed any light on this?

Hi, does the Night Riviera have a standard route if there are no engineering works?  I used it one time and it went EXD - BRI - TRO - NBY - RDG - PAD.

Zoe - there was a thread a while back which discussed the various routes of the NR service.

I have had a search but can't find it. Maybe a mod can.

It was the one where we tried to guess the routes knowing there were about 10!

Erm ... 16, apparently!   ;) :D ;D

Try this: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1335.0

The timetabled route is Penzance - Bristol TM - Bristol Parkway - London Paddington. Whether it will go that way or not is a different matter!

Is there any reason why it does not stop at Taunton early Monday mornings?

AIUI it has not done so for many, many years.  Allows diversion via yeovil without any need for bus replacement to Taunton.

Thats cheating! I guess its one way for FGW to save money though

From what i've heard very few people use Taunton except leaving EXD on a Friday night after being out on the town.

I believe there was some consideration knocking the Taunton stop out altogether, however it seems to survive for now.

And IIRC it used to stop at Bristol Temple Meads until around 5 years ago. Presumably this was also withdrawn to allow more flexibility as to which route it takes.

So Ryanair have cancelled the route until the summer ? What a convenient way to save costs when loadings are low and blame someone else ! Hope the displaced passengers try the superb refurbished sleeper and stay on the railway. ;)

I think it was more than 10 years ago they withdrew the Temple Meads stop. I was disappointed because I used it a number of times over the years: to Plymouth to connect with the early Roscoff ferry, and to and from Penzance to connect with the Scillonian. The up service was also useful for an early arrival in London, I used it a couple of times to connect with the boat train from Liverpool St to Harwich.

It's a shame there are hardly any night services any more.... I know there are operational reasons but other countries manage to have a network of night trains.

It was certainly still calling as recently as May 2003,  02u50, MX.

In around 1988 I travelled through Salisbury THREE times on a PAD > PZ journey.

Tuesday nights down sleeper hit a tree west of Bedwyn and was cancelled at Westbury arriving 05:25, 230 late!! Passengers transferred to a unit to Taunton then a XC service to Plymouth where the 0820 departure for Penzance was held 15 mins to meet the XC. Not a good journey for those people!!

Ouch. Turfed out of your nice comfortable berth into a Vomiter. That's got to hurt.

As inconvenient as it was the passengers, I was personally relieved to hear it was the sleeper loco that hit the tree at 70mph rather than a HST powercar at 100+mph.  Considering the position of the damage that was done to the loco, I reckon it would have had a HST powercar off the road  :(

Not that I'm worried, because I'm not on the train... but FGW's website is claiming there are no sleeper berths on this service - that can't be comfortable - hope they've stuck everyone in First Class carriages!

From FGW Website:

23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:59
12 July 2009
This train has been revised.This train will be formed of 8 coaches.This is due to a train fault.
No sleeper berths will be available on this service.

Looks like they've drafted in a HST set. I would hazard a guess that none of FGWs 57s were available and there were no replacement locos available. I'm sure someone in coffeeshop land will know.....

I know that sometimes FGW draft in a Virgin trains Thunderbird loco (I've seen Brains and Kyrano sitting at Paddington station before) but mostly it's the FGW locos named after South West castles.

The one coming into Paddington from Penzance this morning was a normal FGW loco.

Why can't the HST powercar(s) haul the sleeper coaches?  It is all Mk 3 stock isn't it?

An incompatible electrical supply, and some other issues. That's why other Mk3 carriages haven't been converted to HST trailers without having to go through expensive and extensive overhaul.

The past few times I have travelled on this It has come to my attention that there are no phone chargers in the carriages unlike the hst sets anyone know why ??

Less money was spent on the refurb.

nice

since an overnight train is surely the one most definitely likely to need chargers of some sort

I have successfully used the shaver point in the berths to power my laptop! You of course need a 3 pin to 2 pin adaptor.

 ;D

There are power sockets in the lounge car.

If you don't want your phoen to go flat whilst you are asleep turn it off.  A phone in a moving vehicle will run down much faster than one left at home.  Everytime it moves from one "cell" to another, it starts sending out quite high power tranmissions to try an attract the attention of another cell and this kills the battery life/. 

Don't think this has been posted elsewhere, so apologies if it has. Demand for sleeper berths is so strong that  FGW is adding a fourth sleeper coach to the train every night with a fifth coach on the Friday train to Penzance and the Sunday night return working, which probably means there's not much left by way of spare sleeper coaches in FGW's fleet. Time for a raid on Long Marston?

FGW news item:
ng customers to sleep away the miles and arrive at their destinations refreshed and ready to face the day. ^

Are there any sleepers in Long Marston?

I think there were about half-a-dozen stored there last year. If anyone wants a look round Long Marston, there will be an open day on September 12. For more info, see the Diary section.

I should think so. Wooden ones, concrete ones, metal ones. Maybe even some of those new-fangled ones made from recycled plastic!!  :P ;) ;D

Can't remember if there are any sleepers stored at Long Marston off hand, but there should certainly be plenty of mk 3 sleepers spare somewhere. BR built a fairly large number just before lots of sleeper services were permanently withdrawn, so there should still be plenty around that have barely turned a wheel in service. That's if they haven't all been snapped up yet by heritage railways for use as dormitory accommodation, which many of them have.

It's great to know that demand is so strong for the Night Riviera though, especially "in this economy" (hate that phrase!). Hopefully this bodes well for its future. Makes the threats to remove it when the franchise was renewed in 2006 look rather silly now.

this is good news considering a couple of years ago there was large mention of the service being scrapped,

Probably more to do with the cost of petrol and the cost of flights

 :) ......... and people finding out it exists !!! 

Beyond the ones in traffic with FGW and ScotRail, they're really aren't that many left that haven't been disposed of to preserved railways, which is why I mentioned Long Marston and there are a number still listed in store there by the ABRail database http://abrail.co.uk/lhcspassdetail.htm and The Junction http://www.thejunction.org.uk/flist_lhs_3.html

This one was photographed at the June 2009 Long Marston open day http://www.rollingstock.fotopic.net/p58806839.html

The ones listed at Moreton-in-Marsh have probably been bashed about rather a lot by firefighters by now so I doubt they will turn a wheel again.

Also the lack of improvement in daytime journey times over 30 odd years,indeed longer journey times in many cases on FGW have and will ensure the survival of the sleeper for many years to come I suspect.It is unlikely EVER that the route to Penzance will ever rival the daytime journey time improvements seen in the last few decades on the East and West coast routes.

its not just that, time is money and if you can get where you need to while your asleep then why not

A good quote at a Save Our Sleeper meeting I heard back in 2005,

My young Daughter gets on (the train) at Penzance, I'll get her a juice from the Bar and by Redruth she is in-bed asleep and wont wake till London.

To her that's 307 plus miles in less than half an hour.

THAT'S QUICK!!!!!!

the bbc have finally caught up 2 weeks later than the announcement

I fly to the US on Monday 20th december.......flight leaves to early to travel up that morning.

Hotels near heathrow expensive or you end up paying a fortune in a taxi so I was thinking outside of the box.....

Where normally can you pick the sleeper up from - its december so the timetable is not out so  I can't look

I'm thinking rather than pay the fare to travel down on the sunday and pay for a hotel and taxis - to get the sleeper from somewhere since I've never been on it.  As I'll be going amtrak the next day, would be nice to do a direct comparison

Hell, I'll be getting it Sunday night so might even go as far as penzance to get it

I know, I'm turning sad
Just musing

Taunton is your nearest, but you won't get to bed till about 2 in the morning!

No stop on the Sunday 'up' sleeper at Taunton, nearest would be Exeter, unless a Taunton stop is added in the winter timetable.

On current timetable (unlikely to be major changes in Dec) you would have a two hour plus wait at Exeter St Davids travelling down from Nailsea on the direct HST at 2106 arriving Exeter at 2219, with the up sleeper arriving at 0036 and departing for Paddington at 0127.

Better to make your way to Bristol and take the 2044 CrossCountry from Bristol TM to Plymouth arriving 2246 with the up sleeper due in at 2315.

Can you get advance tickets on the sleeper?  The via bristol idea sounds good

i would say Exeter atleast you can be on board at a decent time

yes you can get advance on the sleeper, why not go all the way to Penzance and get it from there and have a berth, you'll get a decent nights sleep then!

departs penzance just before 10pm so a very reasonable time, pick it up somewhere in cornwall for a decent amount sleep

I was only going to do it with a berth!

I guess I assumed you get a berth from any station..........

Just get an advance to penzance.........work on the way down - get it back again

Wont be that much more than train to pad, express, taxi to hotel, hotel room, dinner, taxi back, etc etc etc

Or paying silly money for a hotel with a shuttel

I guess they don't come on sale until September?

The usual 12 weeks ahead will apply to Advance sleeper booking. Can be less however. Currently the booking horizon for FGW is 20th October, 11 weeks hence.

Looking at the current booking horizon the cheapest Advance Sleeper Solo is ^49.00 PNZ/PLY - PAD.

Does that include a bed?  If so its even cheaper than I calculated

yes that price is for berth AND travel - if people knew such good fares available sure it would be even more popular !  :o

Advance Sleeper Solo includes travel and a solo berth air-conditioned cabin with Volo TV, toiletries pack, complimentary light breakfast with tea or coffee and access to a dedicated Customer Host.

Sleeper passengers also have access to a dedicated Lounge Car with at seat service of food and drink.

On arrival at Paddington, Sleeper passengers can have access to the First Class Lounge.

Not bad for ^49.00, eh?

cheaper than the blinkin travel lodge - just looked and if I can get it for that or close as soon as the fares are released then including an advance to penzance - its actually cheaper than the advance to paddington plus a hotel

As far as I can see there are 3 tiers of quota controlled Advance Solo Sleeper tickets at ^49.00, ^74.00 and ^99.00. These prices are the same no matter which starting station you chose. There are no railcard discounts on the Advance Solo Sleeper fares.

The walk-up fare from PNZ would be ^47.50, Super Off Peak Single (SSS) for travel plus ^45.00 for the berth, totalling ^92.50. You can get a railcard discount on the travel ticket making it ^31.35 plus ^45.00 (no discount on the berth price) totalling ^86.35.

From PLY the SSS is ^41.50 (^27.40) plus ^45.00 for the berth. Totalling ^86.50 (^72.40).

As you can see, should the cheapest Advance Solo Sleeper fares be unavailable you can potentially get a better deal than the higher tiers by buying the SSS + Berth tickets. Even better if you still have your railcard. But if your plans are fixed then you just need to wait for the booking horizon for your date of travel to open and you should have no problem bagging the ^49 inclusive fare.

The highest tier Advance Solo Sleeper at ^99 is more expensive than the walk-up+berth fare from any point on the Sleeper route. Yet another fares anomaly that could catch out the unwary!  ::)

That's an unbelievably good deal for a walk-up fare over that distance and a night's accommodation! I had no idea that the sleeper was such good value. Starting to think that one of these days I'm going to have to find an excuse to use it, although given my current location that could take a bit of doing. If anyone spots any scientific conferences coming up in Penzance I could even get my boss to pay for it... ;)

Ignoramus here:  from where can you buy Advance Solo Sleeper tickets?

I don't know if you can purchase them online (worth a try, but I never have), although you can certainly get them by calling the nice people at FGW telesales on 08457 000 125.

Yes, available online from FGW's website (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/). That's where I dug up the fare's info. You can also buy them from thetrainline (if you really want to pay the additional 'booking' fees!), but not from other TOCs websites.

Em leaves 21.15 0n a Sunday, but that can change from December. Also has been known to Start from Plymouth if Engineering works on in Cornwall. When does the Big work on Royal Albert Bridge start?

Edited to tidy up quote. bignosemac

My family now have a birthday present to give me!  I have managed to secure (through split ticketing) two advanced first class tickets: BAW - EXD - PNZ for a total of ^39.00 and then the solo sleeper back in the evening for ^49.00.  I call that a right result.

When is the timetable change announced?  Before or after the fare release?

New timetable will start on 12th December. Fares increase should be 2nd January 2011.

Note there is also a fare change this year in September.

You're right Ollie. September has previously seen tinkering with restrictions and unregulated fares. January is when the RPI+1% formula for regulated fares is enacted.

... or, as has been suggested elsewhere, a new '10% plus (and never mind what RPI is!)' formula.  :o ::)

I never realised a berth was this cheap, especially considering berth supplements include refreshments in the lounge and breakfast ... certainly needs more advertisement.

There are some excellent photographs on The Man in Seat 61 (http://www.seat61.com/Cornwall-sleeper.htm).

Never been on a sleeper train before ... might just need to pop down to PNZ some time in the future :D

The berth supplement doesn't include refreshments in the the lounge car, they will be have to be paid for. If you meant the 1st Class lounge at Paddington then yes, you'll have access to complimentary beverages and breakfast nibbles.

The FGW website (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1555) seems a little ambiguous.  It says "Complimentary refreshments are provided for all Sleeper berth customers in the lounge", but the only lounge referred to at that point is the lounge car.  The first class lounge is mentioned further down.

I wonder how many people have made the same mistake as me and then wondered where their free drinks were :P

Actually, thinking back, I may have got a free cup of tea and some biccies in the lounge car. Memory is a little hazy on that one. There was however no trolley ^ la daytime 1st Class with the wider selection of comps. Still, you do get at seat service and 1st Class seating in the lounge car.

Does anyone know what formation the Night Riviera is running in these days? Are the sleeper cars at the London end for both up and down journeys?

Cheers,
TLM

They're usually at the 'Country' end.

There are complimentary refreshments available to berth customers in the lounge car. Last time I used the sleeper service it was similar to the complimentary refreshments available in first class (tea, coffee, biscuits, crisps, etc.). The lounge car can be very busy, as there are fewer seats in the lounge car than sleeper berths on the train.

Looks likely that the RPI+1% formula will stay in place at least for this January with the RPI figure from July this year being used. (See this thread (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=7340.msg73094#msg73094) for news item.)

So expect to see a 6% increase in regulated fares. Who knows what the TOCs will do to the unregulated fares in September and January. Eyes are peeled.....

Slightly out of our region, but bargain berths can also be had on the Euston to Scotland Caledonian Sleeper at

http://www.travelpass.buytickets.scotrail.co.uk/BargainBerths/Default.aspx (http://www.travelpass.buytickets.scotrail.co.uk/BargainBerths/Default.aspx)

Used the sleeper for the first time the other month and am using it again soon - highly recommended! Shame that Advance Solo Sleeper fares are only valid to London and not beyond.

i am seriously considering getting on the sleeper somewhere in the south west as a viable option to airport hotel and parking when i go stateside later in the year,it is a morning flight 10.00 IIRC so sleeper to pad and then heathrow express will work out perfect.
can staff use travel pass for a berth or is it just for a seat??

You have PM.

Can't comment on the staff part but is not that scenario the original post?

The formation of the Sleeper is,
A, Brake First
B, Tourist Second Open (yes it's got first class seats, but last time I looked was still marked as TSO not FO)
C, Buffet Lounge Car
D, E, F, G, Sleeping Cars (with additional Sleeper H on 23.45 FO Pad-PNZ and 21.15 SuO PNZ-PAD.

Due to routes taken train runs as you find it to which end the Berths are

Last time I took the sleeper Berths were at front leaving PNZ but at back on arrival at PAD

Does anyone know what time you get kicked off in the morning at Pad?

Sleeper arrives PAD around 0540. Kick out time is 0700.

Perfect for me getting the 0930 flight - I'm sold on the idea even if I have to do the *horrendous* journey to penzance first - I'll just get lots Uni work done

FA, you don't need to go all the way to Penzance. Bristol to Plymouth has favourable timings and if you want to avoid a vomiter then there's an option of a local to Taunton from Nailsea and then a FGW HST to Plymouth. Sleeper leaves Plymouth around 2345.

Guess it depends on how much sleep you want. Word of warning though, if it's your first time on a sleeper then you may find it difficult to nod off.

you are quite right the scenario is same as original post i was not disputing that merely stating it would work as a viable option for me aswell

Done a uk sleeper from Edinburgh to London when a student - also recently done an Amtrak with three overnights so sort of used to it - bearing in mind my job etc I can sleep anywhere - except I find I sleep better on a train than anywhere else - lol

Last Night's Up Sleeper 21.45 PNZ-PAD (17/08/2010) with the Great Western green class 57 was formed as follows,

Loco, coaches G, F, E, D, (sleeping cars) then C, C, (yes 2 lounge cars) then A, A. (2x Brake Firsts) so extra seats than normal.

0730 isn't it?

Erm ... 07:00, according to the FGW website (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1555):

Yep customers off at 0700 train locked up and sent to OOC :)

Thanks everyone for the info re formation. I'm travelling with the wife and kids on the Sunday's down sleeper - a treat for the kids, honest!

Enjoy the trip TLM and let us know how it went.  :)

I'm sure it Used to be 07.30, however I expect it's been brought forward so that the Sleeping Car staff can secure the train just after 07.00, in time for those on a one way working to catch the 07.30 back to Penzance.

Indeed, I've just checked the Dec 2005 timetable and it arrived Paddington 0511 and kick out time was 0730.

last time I used it back in april, even us lowly seated passengers were allowed to stay on. Whether that was a one off, I don't know, because previously we've been booted off with a few minutes of arriving at Pad.

Brilliant - thanks for the info! Not sure how I missed that on the website  :-[

I don't know the exact time, it was changed a couple of years back because apparently they need to vacate the platform earlier now...

In regards to the formation, the sleeper car are usually at the rear from Exeter to Penzance.  The position will be different from PAD depending on the route the train follows that night.  Bear in mind that the train is somehow a commuter train within Cornwall, so you don't want to disturb passengers maybe sleeping...

You vacate thae train as soon as it arrives into PNZ, by the way (just in case nobody said it yet...).

From what I've seen the Sleeping cars are very often on the front from Exeter going PNZ.
With a 08.00* arrival in PNZ no wonder it's kick out time on arrival, plus IIRC the Sleeper attendants are all PNZ based.

* 08.59 on Mondays.

...at the time of posting is showing as 218 late (and counting), still at Paddington due to equipment failure - another 57 sat down again by any chance?

Wonder if it'll ever make it or if the poor passengers will wake up to find they haven't moved an inch overnight  :o

As an aside, the 2248 PAD to OXF (1D85 according to Journey Planner) was 2 late at Radley but has not yet reached Oxford and is currently 191 late - I'm assuming this is some kind of bug in the system where for some reason this train's arrival at Oxford wasn't picked up by the monitoring point...?

Far as I can tell from logs 22:48 I assume made it, can't see anything to say otherwise.
The sleeper departed Pad at 03:45 formed as an HST

So not really a sleeper then

Caught the up sleeper with my son from Penzance to Paddington last Tuesday(7th Decemder) and did not sleep a wink as the coach F the coach I was in had a wheel flat clonking away the whole journey and we were in a birth close to the end of the offending coach wheelset.Could I claim some compensation for the lost sleep.

did you make a sleeper host aware to see if you could be moved to a free berth? (if available)

Does that link into why the sleeper was going through Theale at 16.00hrs on Thursday heading West ??? Wondered what was going on.

i'd imagine it would of run ecs after it was fixed on thursday, to form the thursday night up

Hello

I am in Devon for the week, and want to photo the NightRiviera Trains, however I do not fancy getting up at 5am!

Do they travel back up to London in daylight? If so what time, and where can I photograph them?

Cheers
JJ

The down Night Riviera stables for the day at Penzance becoming the up service later that evening.

Unfortunately the only real option to photograph it in daylight is to travel on it (there are seated coaches) from Exeter, Newton Abbot, or Plymouth into Cornwall.

If you travel on it all the way to Penzance you should be able to get some pictures of it shunting from Penzance station to Long Rock depot.

Okay Thankyou  :)

While i'm on the topic, do Back-to-Back HST power cars often travel up the line to and from Exeter? I have seen pictures of them in Penzance etc.

Class 43 power car moves, and more gen about the Night Riviera and its movements is beyond my knowledge. I tend to concentrate on in-service passenger trains.

There might be some folk here in the Coffee Shop with more information about passenger stock movements or with pointers to other places to go looking for the gen on t'internet.

When it comes to unusual stock movements, I usually see them pass me by before I've had time to whip me camera out!!!

If I was given correct information the Down Sleeper tonight, (21st-22th April) will have 6 sleeping cars, due to demand as well as Day cars. :o.

What with the weather it's going to be a very busy weekend

Info was good: 6 sleeping cars all full, would be sleeping berth passengers turned away, (well to the day cars),
Could have done with an additional Day Car.

Wounder if Return 21:45 PNZ PAD tonight will also have 6 sleepers

Wouldn't suprise me if the state of the M5 earlier was anything to go by!

Had a berth on the Fri 15/04 pad - pnz sleeper and all five sleeping coaches were full, with would-be passengers having to 'rough it' in the day cars.

Even former FGW Chairman Charles Howeson had to settle for a seat in the Lounge Car for his journey down to Plymouth!

To his credit, he introduced himself to a family with young children, asked about their holiday plans etc and enthusiastically extolled the virtues of the Night Riviera service...

Fears for London sleeper service as new rail franchise drawn up.Westcountry rail commuters may have to "re-fight old battles" to keep the night sleeper train to London when the Government draws up the new Great Western franchise, it is claimed.
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/regionalnews/Fears-sleeper-service-new-rail-franchise-drawn/article-3582825-detail/article.html

Scare story, no substance! Pure guessing....

Julian Crow said the service was losing ^1 million a year in 2007, but no mention how much it still loses. I'd be very surprised if it was showing a profit.

Let's not forget the 'value-for-money' the current Govt. are looking for. If the DfT decide the continuing subsidy is too great then it is perfectly possible that interested parties in the West Country will have to 're-fight old battles'.

Then there's future investment to take into account. Those 57's are on their last legs....

humm as long as first do get the new franchise i would say its a fair bet that it would be safe as they seem pretty committed to its current running and indeed growth, so as long as they keep the franchise and it remains viable i really wouldn't worry

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13422806):

Am I right in thinking that the early flights from Newquay to London recently stopped?  I'm a fairly regular user of the sleeper because I have meetings in Penzance or St Ives. Almost every night the berths are well used as well as a lot of people in the seated accommodation.

I think we will see a lot of these stories in the coming months. The abolition of the remaining Pullman Restaurant services will be next.

Had 9 coaches on last Friday (down), wasn't even nice weather/bank holiday/whatever!

Nearly most of the seats have been full whenever i have travelled on the sleeper frm Taunton to London Paddington

Have been using the Sleeper on a weekly basis - occasionally twice a week - since the new year. I book a berth and travel from Pad down to Exeter (I live near St Davids).

The berths have frequently been full, with potential customers being turned away, despite extra sleeping cars being added. The day seats also always seem to be busy.

Last Wednesday there was a lady from FGW in the Lounge Car providing some 'on the job' training for the crew. We got talking during a lull and I raised the issue of the ageing 57's. Her reply was that they are not as knackered as the HSTs...!? :D This opinion was also shared by one of the train crew.

However, my fear is that there will come a day when the coaching stock needs replacement and thus substantial investment, will any Train Operator want to pay for Mk 4 sleeping cars?

Just floating an idea here....

Not sure the 57's are in as good nick as the Class 43 power cars. Would there be scope for 43s to take over from the 57s on the Night Riviera after IEP comes on stream?

A bit of re-gearing and electrical work to make them compatible with the loco hauled MKIII stock?

In theory the 57/6s are fairly new locomotives, although I don't know how far the re-engineering went in terms of equipment below the solebar (traction motors, drives etc), having been introduced in 2004.

I'd have thought that if a replacement was being seriously contemplated it would be simpler to use DB 67s which I strongly suspect are currently not fully utilized, putting it mildly.

I regard the 57s as something akin to  Trigger's broom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbha4XclSMU), but I guess the same could be said of the HST power cars!

I don't think there will be any need new coaches for many years. These coaches do one rather leisurely run per day, so wear and tear is limited. In contrast, the Mk3 HST trailers are hammered up and down for many hours each day but are in good enough nick to be likely to last past their 40th birthdays in many cases.

Something to think about.

From my Information Source, the Sleepers now run most Nights with all berths Full, and the Day Cars could really do with another day car.

If First did lose the Next Franchise, or drop the Sleepers from the Next franchise, it would be in the Interest of any other TOC to run the Night Train as an Open Access service!

We could end up with a New operator on the greater Western, & First still running the Sleepers.
"Revenue Sharing"

Correct on both counts.

Just because they are full doesn't mean an open access version could ever be profitable.  For FGW it is just part of the overall franchise, where packed commuter trains balance out quiet branch lines.

Even without detailed figures I just cannot believe it would survive as a stand alone service.

Paul

I think the sleeper is safe for the foreseeable future. FGW were told to take it out of the current franchise but they came up with an option that kept it going.  Even if the sleeper no longer runs you will still need a service from Penzance to Exeter in the evening and a corresponding service from Exeter to Penzance on the morning.

The crunch for the sleeper will come when the rolling stock is life expired.

Simple answer to the clapped out 57's is to hire in 67's.

And as for the sleeper coaches themselves, then one would hope that when new stock is required an order will be placed for carriages for both the Caledonian and Night Riviera. Politically, I think it highly unlikely the Caledonian will ever be binned, so that might have repercussions for ensuring the Night Riviera survives as well.

I agree with what you are saying, hopefully if any new loco hauled crriages are ever ordered maybe some sleeper stock can also be ordered.

does the government still have the designs for those nightstar carriages which we sold to canada?

At that point there might even scope to introduce (or reintroduce) other services - say complete the triangle with services from Plymouth to the North West or Scotland.

I would certainly use a sleeper service from  the west country to scotland. maybe a penzance to aberdeen service as part of the crosscountry franchise

Consisting of a camping bed on the floor of a Voyager!?

hammocks in the vestibules

I think if HS2 happens that will be the end of the caledonian sleeper

but also a source of spare stock for ours

HS2 is never going to reach Fort Bill or Inverness. Even with HS2 as far as Edinburgh/Glasgow, the Highlands are still going to be 7 hours plus from London. That would still make an overnight service a viable option.

I think many of us will be long since gone from this earth by the time HST gets to anywhere in Scotland - if it ever does!

HST are a daily occurance in scotland.  I think you mean HS2  ;)

Yes - typing error.

read a information document  i received  from CSRE on their polaris high speed train, it said they could do trailer's for ^0.93 million.

 might be a good idea if they need replacement carriages if they can do a loco hauled trailer,It would  be even better if they can base them on the currently MK3 stock but with better safety standards

1C99 left PAD 145 mins late (!) at 0210.

Lets see how much of that is 'recovered' by Penzance.....

At 02:56:

Last reported at 03:04 through Newbury. 130 late.

Opened the taps a bit since then. Now just 98 late through Bruton. 42 minutes to cover the 52.65 miles from Newbury. I make that an average speed of 75.1 mph. Not bad for a loco that has a top speed of 95 mph. That stretch is normally timetabled to take 71 minutes by the Down Night Riviera.

Gonna keep and eye on this one. Who needs sleep? It'll be interesting to see the start to stop average from Reading to Taunton.

Go 1C99!! Go!!!

Oh, and well done to the bobbies for keeping the sticks off!

Live departures at 04:06:

Reading to Taunton via Westbury avoiding line is a distance of 107.69 miles. Time taken by 1C99 this morning was 76 minutes. That's just 2 minutes slower than the best HST timing for Reading - Taunton non-stop.

That's a start to stop average of 85.01mph. Wow!

Soaking up the dwell times at Taunton, Exeter, and Plymouth, plus some speedy despatching in Cornwall could see an on time arrival in Penzance.

Looks like a bit of a tour de force from the driver, don't suppose they get a chance to "run 'em" like this very often! I suspect it's fairly easy for the siggies to keep the boards off given that I doubt there's too much other traffic around at this time in the morning!

There's usually 30 mins or so station dwell time at both Taunton and Plymouth (crew changes?); I guess there may be the opportunity to get back a significant amount of time by curtailing those stops as well.

By the way, I have a five-hour time difference on my side so I'm watching this at a much more civilized 2320! And I don't wish to out-pedant the resident pedant, but it's 1C99... ;)

Blame the late (early?) hour for the headcode error. You are of course correct with 1C99.

I've gone back and edited my posts to show the correct headcode. Was getting my 1A40s and 1C99s mixed up.  :-[

For comparison, the Up Night Riviera (1A40), routed via Melksham took 118 minutes to travel from Taunton - Reading, a distance of 121.9 miles.

A much more leisurely start to stop average of 61.5 mph.

Probably a bit more comfortable to sleep through as well.

Off NTA 44 down.

My money's on a right-time arrival at PNZ, especially given the 30 min dwell scheduled for PLY...

But not much sleep was had, I suspect!

Not quite made a right-time arrival, I'm afraid. Last report is from St Erth, 16 down.

Lots of time saved at Plymouth, as predicted by blakey, but little since then. Still a good effort, though, and not just by the crew! Even my wife was (almost) enthused after reading the running commentary  ;D ;D

Terminated 08:07 - 14mins late.

Here was the full run...

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/6000940657_66a0378e24_z.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6011/6001488352_e55f3e4fba.jpg)

I am struggling to see how a lunchtime HST to Paddington caused this delay...?

Because the 57 was used to fetch it back to Old Oak Common - but FGW needed a driver that signed for it. There aren't many, so they had to wait for one to sign on in the afternoon before the 57 could leave for Westbury.

Then had to wait for the 57 & HST to get back before the 57 was available fir the sleeper.

What I don't understand was why any other loco couldn't fetch it - or is simply that the 57 wouldn't cost them, whereas hiring anything else would have?

Can anyone confirm this i have heard that 57603 failed a few nights ago and FGW are now down to just 2, class 57's due to the 4th 57 having work done on it.

Clearly too much slack on that service! :o :P

_{NB - this is a joke}

So did last night's run set any records then...? That must be one of the fastest recorded loco-hauled runs over some of the portions of the journey. By the way, a few years back I found that rattling across the Canadian prairies at something approaching 90 on a late-running sleeper train was quite soporific, to the extent that I almost missed the last call for breakfast.

There's a picture of the day and brief report on The Railway Centre for 2nd August ...

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/index.html (http://www.therailwaycentre.com/index.html)

Just in case it disappears, as the page is updated daily, the text by Colin J Marsden states:


So I guess this relates to the down sleepers on the night of Sunday 31st July.  You really have to wonder how FGW gets away with treating its paying passengers customers like this

Nick

Can anyone check logs for this down service & gleam any running info? What time did it reach PNZ for example?

For the future, there is a picture of the day index on Colin Marsden's site, link is at the bottom of the left hand list.  IIRC he does archive all the captions as well as the pictures.

Paul

Colin J Marsden being nice and non-biased there as usual.

At least FGW didn't just dump one train load of passengers in Swindon at 3am!

But they ought to have a loco on standby, surely.

OK, with the number of 57s they have - but if they're out of order or away for maintenance, then hire something suitable to at least have it on standby!

I think Marsden is being a little harsh there, it does sound like FGW managed to make the best of a bad situation and minimize overall trauma. I take ChrisB's point as well though - I was amazed that apparently the only way to rescue that HST from Westbury yesterday was to borrow the 57 rostered for the sleeper.

Was there nothing else suitable that would have been able to expedite a rescue more quickly, or was FGW trying to keep things in-house to avoid having to fork out for hiring a loco and driver from another company?

No, I don't think that was the only way at all....there must be other locos around?....

Might be the only way without having to pay for it though.....

Shouldnt there have been some class 59's or 66's at the yard in westbury, which could have been used to drag the hst?

Again, only by paying fir them!

I know FGW borrowed a loco to get the hst moved back into Westbury station, why couldn't have one take all the way back to London. Anyone want to consider that maybe spare loco not available rather than blaming cost (which it will already have cost to FGW in delay minutes + note I don't know if any alternative loco's were available - just giving another option)

It was an EWS 08 that towed it to Westbury, and with the OOC 08 not available the 57 had to shunt the coaches into pad.

Are you saying that the Down sleeper coaches for Monday night were dragged into Paddington by one 57 leaving said 57 trapped on the blocks? Shame there's no run round facility on Platform 1 at Paddington.

And awaiting the other 57 to return from Westbury with the failed HST?

What's up withh OOC's Gronk? Is it poorly?

I  am sure i have seen 2 class 08's at Old Oak common

The normal method of working is for one 57 to drag the stock into pad with another 57 attached dead at the rear.  That 57 then takes the train to penzance and the 57 left on the blocks returns to OOC ready to pick up the coaches in the morning. 

They are not really supposed to use the 08.  It will only be used when they are a 57 short.  One of the problems is that the 08 does not have train supply and if you are uising it in the morning then the 57 on the block will have to be kept running - which is not allowed pumping diesel fumes into the station area.  Either that or you have no train supply which means no teas coffee AC etc.

I didnt realise the shore supplies had been removed at Paddington.  When did they go?

Isn't there a problem with the shunters (08) aren't fitted with APWS and therefore can't go on the main line?

If taht the case how come they have been working the empty stock into paddington station

There has never been a shore supply at Paddington for Coaching stock.  The shore supplies are for HST which operate at a different voltage. 

The 08 is passed for the main line which it has been operating on quite regularly lately.

the O8 stock have to be doublemanned on / off OOC i believe

report on WNXX that 57309 is working the Paddington - Penzance sleeper tonight. Think 57605 is on the blocks having hauled the stock in

Problems again with tonight's (Friday 5th August) Down Night Riviera.

I'm reliably informed (thanks Ollie!) that the country end Class 57 failed ay Paddington. The set had to be dragged back to Old Oak Common by a Class 08, remarshalled to put the other Class 57 on the country end then hauled back into Paddington by the shunter. What price run round point work for Platform 1 at Paddington?

It has left Paddington at 0245. 180 minutes down.

Time for yet another spirited run down the Berks & Hants methinks! Let's see if it can beat the timing for Reading - Taunton set on Monday.

Wow and double wow!!!

I thought Monday night/Tuesday morning's run from Reading to Taunton was impressive at 76 minutes and 85.01mph for the start to stop average speed.

This morning the down Night Riviera has covered the 107.69 miles in 73 minutes! That's a whole minute faster than the best HST timetabled time for Reading - Taunton!

A start to stop average speed of 88.51mph.

What could make that time and speed even more impressive is the fact that Friday's down Sleeper usually has an extra carriage. Can anyone confirm the consists for last night and Monday night?

Well done again to the driver and signallers. Although again, I suspect the latter had very little to do at that time of the morning.

As a matter of interest, what happened to the passengers while this was happening at Paddington? Did they go on the jaunt to Old Oak Common and back, or did they have to wait in the lounge?

Meanwhile I wouldn't have liked to be someone who was expecting to get on at Reading. Not a good place to wait for 3 hours in the middle of the night!

One would hope the pax are kept fed and watered in the 1st Class lounge at Paddington.

I'd also hope that any pick ups at Reading are given access to a lounge there (maybe the Rail-Air lounge?) Not ideal but not a lot else that can be done. I suppose if it was known for definite how long the delay to departure was going to be then pax from Reading could travel up to PAD at wait there in more comfort.

A couple of times when I was in my late teens I caught the Sleeper for a seated journey from Taunton down to Cornwall. On one occasion in the winter it was delayed by 90 minutes. Fortunately there was a staff member around who opened up the waiting room on Platform 1 (now 2) at Taunton and put the heating on!

I also wonder whether FGW give any goodwill compensation for such a heavily delayed departure? Only those travelling to Taunton and Exeter St Davids this morning would be entitled to charter compensation. Thanks to the lightning run to Taunton and eating up the dwell times, all stops from Newton Abbot onward were within 1 hour of their scheduled arrival.

---

1C99 25 late into Penzance.

Siting outside the Manor by Slough station today at around 11:30 night Riviera stock came through on the Down relief at around 11:30.

57 602 leading 605 at rear.

Assumme it was going to form tonights Up service from Penzance.

Seems to have been a test run of sorts to Westbury.

Due to failure of the loco last nights (22/1/12) up night riviera was hauled by a pair of back to back hst's coupled to the front of the loco. anyone got any pictures of such a formation, as i have also been told its not the first time this has happened!

Wow. What a faff - that must have made for a few interesting photos! Top marks to FGW for coming up with this enterprising solution to avoid cancelling the sleeper or substituting a day HST set.

apparently was 141 down arriving at Exeter and arrived paddington at 0630 this morning, so made some time.
A rumour i've heard is that the down tonight will be operated in the same way.

I saw this coming through thatcham ths morning while parked up waiting fr the 547 to reading. I noticed the weird formation but it was too dark to get any pics. It went through thatcham about 530 I think

Yes it is supposed to be  hauled by 2 back to back power car's tonight.

There is at least 1 photo the  a smilar thread about this on uk railforums if anyone wants to have a look.

The HST power cars only hauled the 1A40 last night until Exeter, then the loco (57602) and the power cars swapped with 1C99, so 57603 from 1C99 ended up back in London, and power cars and 57602 ended up back in Penzance.

Tonights 1A40 is going to be hauled by 2xHST power cars with 57602 until Newton Abbot where the 2 power cars will come off and work back to Laira.

Can both these two statements be right.  Can sopmone explain.

I will try to clear things up a bit.

The power cars hauled the sleeper to Exeter St Davids and came off the train with 57602 and swapped with the 57 that was hauling the sleeper from Paddington with the power cars and 57602 then hauling the sleeper to Penzance.

Tonight the same combo is to haul the sleeper from Penzance to Newton Abbot where 57602 should hopefully be able to haul the sleeper on its own to London Paddington unless something else goes wrong with it.

From Day Ranger57,
Any Gen from Louis94 is FGW gold plate gen!!
And don't forget this is not a Gen site!
Good luck for the new year. javascript:void(0);

Certainly not the first time such a consist has been used. Video from 2006:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJYbXNy5cWQ.

FGW are trying to run The Night Riviera with just 2 serviceable 57/6's at the moment. 604 is in for scheduled exam. Meanwhile 605 is still recovering from its argument with a tree and is only well enough to do the ECS shunt from Old Oak to Paddington and will be off to Brush Traction for repairs just as soon as 604 passes its exam.

Now that 602 is also having problems (rumour is that it is struggling on the Devon Banks) I wonder whether FGW will look to borrow a couple of 57/3 'Thunderbirds', or whether they'll continue with the 2x43 solution?

Apologies for any confusion about my "sighting" at Thatcham ) certainly saw the sleeper come through Thatcham late but it was dark!

An OOC 08 shunter has been covering the Paddington to OOC shunt on several occasions as a result.

57603 Tintagel Castle didn't get a Sunday off either.  I saw it last weekend hauling the rear power car and coaches G and H of the previous night's 16:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa which had failed between Didcot Parkway and Swindon. Not sure what the problem was which meant they had to divide the train. The rear portion went through Reading at 11:00 on Sunday. Don't know what happened to the front part.

Something to do with the brakes I believe, which affected the rear portion, that was the reason why the rear power car could not just drive the rear portion back. The front portion continued to Swindon and terminated (very late) before heading back to St Phillips Marsh. Service divided at Uffington, blocking the up main for over 3 hours.

I was waiting at honiton at 0120 on Monday morning as they were booked west of England and when I checked online they left totnes over 2 hours late

attached picture is posted with permission from "sonic2009" on Railforums UK

Is there a reason why they use two power cars back to back, is it because they only work in multiple or is it just to keep two cars together?

on railforum there is mention that the only way of connecting a hst to 57 is through the front draw bar where they'd normally connect a 57 to tow a dead hst.
so the second hst is so the one attached to the 57 doesnt have to reverse all the way.

No it seems you were right. Now Anthony215 has explained all is clear.

Last week the 57 that was hauling the Sleeper out of OOC failed and they had to send it back and swap for the '08' which then got the set into Paddington at 2245 (sleeper staff should open train at 2230).

I would guess that the trailing weight of the sleeper vehicles plus a class 57 dead-in-tow is similar to or higher than that of 8 mark 3 trailers, which means that you'd need both class 43s as one alone would not have the necessary oomph to shift the train at a suitable pace. Bear in mind that HSTs running on one power car aren't allowed to take on the steeply-graded portion of the GWML through south Devon unassisted.

Here are some pics I have found:

http://ambsphotogallery.weebly.com/sleeper-issues.html

Nice find Anthony! I'd been trawling t'interweb without success.  :(

Thanks although I came across it by accident

A single class 43 may not have the tractive effort, also the class 43 do not have a driving position at the "B end" non cab end which makes for problems if it needs detaching from the train and driven in that direction which would rule out the return as "light engine"

Also this end of the class 43 has a buckeye coupling only while they could couple to the coaches the 43's have a 415v 3 phase electric train heating supply were as the night Riviera stock requires an 850v single phase supply hence the need for the class 57 in the formation to provide ETH; the front or "A end" of the class 43 has the facility for "emergency" loco coupling (and even HST to HST coupling)

They may be other reasons like 43's alway work trains in pairs so having an odd ones at different ends of the country may not be operationally smart.

This formation would have been staff intensive as the 57 would need manning because the fire alarm would not be wired to the driving cab of the train

Something fell off one of the trailer units I believe, subsequently back of train was damaged. RAIB are investigating...

Doesn't look like the RAIB is investigating: nearly three months after the incident and there's no indication of any inquiry on their website. Quite possible that they attended and decided that there was no need for a full investigation of course.

Just spotted the up night riviera from my window, and is in reverse formation tonight, with the sleeper carriages at the penzance end, and seated at the London end.Havent seen this formation previously, Would i be correct in assuming there has been a reversal somewhere over the weekend?

It has been reversed by running via Yeovil this weekend on Sunday night/Monday morning. Having the coaching stock this way round has not been abnormal in the past, but nowadays the sleeper carriages tend to be at the London end. The set will probably be turned tomorrow morning by running a different route into Old Oak Common.

Just seen the up sleeper,  being hauled by a grey loco, anyone know which loco it is, and who its hired from?

The only grey liveried  locomotives I know of are either that DCR class 56 or the chiltern class 67's

Presumably an ex Virgin 57/3

I'm told it's booked as 57603.

I've had it confirmed as 57603 to me

 ;) Now only 1 berth left for booking Friday night - get in there quick for last minute weekend trip to Cornwall folks !! (or you will be in seating coaches instead)

3rd August was sold out two months ago so its no surprise!

Is the sleeper often sold out ?
If so perhaps an extra sleeper coach could be provided ?
That would presumably bring in more revenue at little extra cost.
I would presume that the locomotive could easily keep to time with the extra load in view of the modest average speed at which the sleeper runs.

I went up to London on a Tuesday night and it was sold out. It must run full each night to make a profit but its positive news given the instability of the service a few years back.

Most of the time, occasionally there are lightly loaded nights (generally Tues/Wed nights)...

Sunday Up & Friday Down Services have 5 sleeper coaches, all other nights run with 4.

A Sleeper Attendant is required for each 2 sleeper coaches, so on the nights with 5 coaches, an extra member of staff is rostered.

With 5 sleeper coaches running round only once a week in each direction, I imagine this allows maintenance as and when required on the other coaches.

I think the stock is too tight to run 5 in each direction every night, given I was told they had maintenance tearing their hair out when it was proposed to strengthen to 4 a night.

Don't know about the down train from Exeter onwards but 1A40 is quite smartly timed between Penzance and Plymouth. You'd struggle with load 9 and platforming the train becomes more critical as well.

Interestingly last night's Highland Caledonian sleeper's Inverness portion was officially sold out but the whole of coach L was unused. I assume it may have been a positioning move to get the coach "up north".

I had a chat with two of my FirstGroup colleagues and both didn't know this. Does the sleeper have SDO? If not then 9 coach sleepers would be pretty hard to manage. 

SDO is fitted and used at Hayle and Lostwithiel, probably a couple more stations when running as load 8 or on the rare occasion it runs as load 9.

I've also seen it used Penzance bound at Reading to allow a pre-boarding ticket check.
A good idea unfortunately I'd placed myself on the platform ready to board the sleeper and go straight to my berth thus I had to walk back to the guard but once he was sure I had a ticket the SDO was released and I was then able to walk along the platform to join at the rearmost door thus saving a trip along the narrow corridor with my bag.

I have seen that done at Reading too. I always assumed it was to enforce the pick up only rule at Reading.

Thanks all! I find it amusing that the guard still uses a lamp to communicate with the driver when ready to depart. I would certainly use the sleeper again if I had the money/time to book it!

Running the engine off at each platform and SDO'ing from the rear as necessary would not be a problem for 9, although some may disagree...  ;)

As niether the 57/6 or the stock has driver / guard communications how do you think the guard communicates with the driver?
 ;)

Traditional railway work!

And no whistles used either! So the sleepers aren't disturbed.

Is this a H&S requirement or is it just because an attendant is needed to unlock the compartment doors?   If the latter one would have thought that in this day and age staff productivity might have been improved by fitting key-card locks?


Edit note: Quote marks fixed. CfN.  :)

Wondered that myself, all the Sleeper crew are fab, but does paying someone to sit in a 'cupboard' and read a paperback all night make economic sense?

Certainly a 50-bed hotel would have just one night porter, although I do appreciate your average 3 star doesn't do 75mph... :)

Does this go back to the fatl fire on a sleeper in the west many years ago?

I think you are being very harsh...

Does one night porter have an hour to check 50 rooms in? Do night porters serve 50 breakfasts at varying times to suit the customer?  Does a night porter clear/wash/tidy/stack all the crockery/cutlery of 50 passengers in the short time the staff have in the morning? (The sleeper doesn't hang round in Paddington/Penzance for long once the majority get off).  Does a night porter make 50 wakeup calls?

If the crew work one way, they are on for nearly 12 hours.. they are probably due a break too, when do you suggest this is taken?

Having been a night porter in a 102 room hotel, total capacity around 180 guests sleeping (we had some single rooms) I think I'm qualified to answer that. I've checked in up to 60 guests at once, with no other attendants to help me. I've prepared and delivered room services breakfasts to 50+ guests between 0430-0830. Attended to guests pulling a late one at the bar. I had to clean a large lounge area and other public areas nightly, clear and set up meeting rooms, clean and re-stock a bar, prepare and serve food from a 24 hour menu, do a nightly systems audit, perform three security rounds of the entire property and be a first aider and bouncer when necessary. And I did all that in 10 hours often without time for a proper 30 minute break as entitled. Thank god I didn't have the additional deeply onerous task of knocking on up to 24 doors to do wake-up calls. That was an automated service through the TV system.

You appear to be saying that one person does what they do for 50 berths on the sleeper. I count 28 berths in two carriages on the Night Riviera. The last time I travelled on the sleeper the attendant for my coach was indeed sat in their cupboard reading a book. Must have been on their break.

State the safety case by all means, but the roles required of a sleeper attendant for 28 berths in 12 hours appear to be a doddle to me. I bet they are paid a darn sight more than the average hotel porter as well.

You are aiming in the wrong direction bignosemac you should be campaining for hotel porters to earn the same as sleeping car attendants.

But then you'd be up against the CBI and the government who would be complaining that for the profitability of the business they can't really afford to pay the minimum wage let alone any more.
 

The pay issue was a postscript.

I just wanted to point out to Super Guard what this former hotel porter had to do on a regular basis. Yes I had quiet nights but none where I was only responsible for only 28 guests.

The suggestion was that 1 sleeper attendant could do more than 2 coaches, so 4 coaches would be 56 berths and therefore higher than the quoted 50.

While I respect your experience, I work the Sleeper regularly, so therefore see how much work and time pressure is put on the hosts at certain points of the shift, even though there is the obvious quiet spell throughout the night when everyone is (hopefully) asleep!

I imagine there is an over-riding safety agreement, incase of fire/evacuation.

As I stated previously, while extra staffing is one issue, which could be easily solved (hire more staff), I think the lack of sleeper berth rolling stock is actually the biggest problem.

I should add, in fairness, that I did have a Duty Manager on call, but they were sleeping whilst being paid for their overnight shift. Most would only consider coming to my assistance if the world was about to end! I would never have dreamed of waking them up to help me hoover the lounge or set up a meeting room.

In all my time working at the Forte Posthouse Taunton I only ever woke up a Duty Manager on three occasions. Once when we had pikeys on the roof nicking the aluminium lightning conductors and once when I had a guest suffer a heart attack.

A shift I'll never forget was the night Diana, Princess of Wales died. This was the third time I woke a DM. An internal message came through from Forte Towers (that was the nickname for head office  :D) at 5am requesting all hotels in the group bring their flags down to half mast before guests started waking up. I woke the DM to request help to do this and got the response; "**** off. Do it yourself." One of our flags had been tied to the top of the mast rather than run up. I had to shin up the pole and untie it. I fell off and landed on the bonnet of a customer's car. Damn near broke my neck. And what did I get, along with friction burns on my hands, for my a trouble? A verbal warning for damaging a customers car and the threat of worse should I pursue a health and safety claim. Learnt from that just how management in the hospitality trade treat the foot soldiers. Quickly got my Chef qualifications after that (effectively management grade, but still poorly paid) and disappeared to the relative safety of the kitchen.

Many more stories from my time there. Dealing with Oasis and the Gallagher brothers -surprisingly enjoyable. Enjoying the odd cigar and brandy (just a small one!) with Jethro. Having one of Tom King's (former Northern Ireland secretary and MP for Bridgwater) Special Branch officers calling me a useless p***k because I wouldn't reopen the bar at 3am. Having Waqar Younis (at the time, playing for Glamorgan) going nuts because someone had 'stolen' the County Championship trophy they'd won earlier that evening defeating Somerset at the County Ground, Taunton. This was the real trophy, over 100 years old, not a replica like you often see presented in other sports. We found it atop a cistern in the ladies toilets!

And last but not least the Romany wedding reception. ^20,000 worth of damage to the hotel, police in riot gear, copper chopper above, Junction 25 of the M5 closed and just me, a barman on overtime and a largely absent DM. The Romanies paid for all the damage though and the hotel made a tidy profit. I got a measly ^20 bonus. Jethro would often tip me more than that just for selling him the odd brandy and cigar!

Is that Forte Hotel the one which is now a Holiday Inn?  Had many a meeting in the reception area there - including one three weeks ago when I caused a bit of uproar.  Stood up from my sofa at the end of the meeting and couldn't undertand why a section of the reception was shouting at me.  Seems I had blocked their view of the finish of the Olympic Cycling on the big tv behind me.....  :-[

From the Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/british-breaks/things-to-do-on-holiday-in-cornwall-1266482):

The Night Riviera is an absolute gem, and sad to say it's only in the last year that I have discovered and used it - twice so far.  The fares are very reasonable, especially for 2 people.  And it makes a day out in London more special, and gives a lot more time in the capital especially for a day out.  London is lovely that early in the morning too - it feels so untouched.

Quite possibly. I don't know the hotel and don't really know Bristol that well, but the two Forte (thf) Posthouses near Heathrow are now Holiday Inns (though one only became a Posthouse after the other was renamed to Forte Crest).

Forte Posthouse Taunton is indeed now a Holiday Inn. I started work there not long after Rocco Forte lost control of his hotel group following a hostile takeover by Granada. Rocco was even prevented from using his surname in any other hospitality businesses. He had to make do with RF Hotels. He has now reclaimed his name following the break-up and sell off of the Forte Hotel Group portfolio.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek re 'reading a book', but thanks for your reply as I too have worked in Hospitality in the past (20+ years) and I feel it's fair to say that a hotel operator would run the sleeper service with fewer staff.

However, the sleeper crew are excellent and just doing what is asked of them, so no offence intended.

In 2003 I had breakfast on a morning train from Norwich to London, accompanied by the owner, Head Chef and Manager of an independent hotel. An excellent, enjoyable journey, however all three were somewhat disbelieving at the number of staff rostered - at least twice as many as actually required, even for a full sitting.

Small wonder, perhaps, that the restaurant cars were withdrawn on cost grounds...

Joined the up Cornish Riviera at Par. Standing room only from Bodmin, and no seat reservations valid. Could be an interesting run to London.

Yes, last nights Riviera was busy. I had a seat all the way to NTA though. :)

Upgrade??

\

Not when I dispatch it! hahaha!  Wakey wakey!

Perfect excuse for a long window leaning session  ;)

BNM do you still work there? If so I am one of your regular customers I believe (unless there is more than one holiday inn in Taunton). Stay there whenever I visit family in Taunton as it is superior to rival chain hotels in taunton, and normally similar prices.
Once made the mistake of staying in the dump of a Travelodge at Hankridge way. Complained to the Travelodge manager about the cleanliness, and basically in politer terms if it wasnt good enough clean it myself.
I emailed photos to travelodge head office, and their response wasnt even apologetic just made excuses. I didnt mention the managers attitude just the cleanliness with supporting photos to my complaint.

Sorry, richwarwicker. My gig at the Forte Posthouse Taunton (now Holiday Inn, Taunton) ended in the last century! Worked there from early '96 to late '99.

Travelodge are very hit and miss. I've stayed in some excellent ones, but also had some nights in the less salubrious locations within the chain. I've stayed at the one in Hankridge, Taunton and I agree, it's not one of the best.

Incidentally, Travelodge UK was also originally part of the Forte portfolio, named at start-up as Forte Travelodge. Charles Forte bought the rights from the original US company to operate a UK 'Travelodge' brand in the mid 1980s. The brand stayed in the Forte empire following the hostile takeover of Forte Group by Granada in 1995. When Granada demerged their hospitality business in 2001, form their core media interests, the hotels business was run by another acquisition of Granada called Compass Group. Compass Group was, and is, primarily a foodservice company and on demerger they quickly divested themselves of their hotel portfolio, selling off brands such as 'Travelodge' to venture capitalists and individual former Forte hotels to other companies. Holiday Inn snapped up many Forte Posthouses.

In the halcyon days of the late 1990s I was employed, ultimately, by the same company that paid the wages to the cast of Coronation Street. We even had staff discount for the Granada Studios Tour in Manchester!

The M48 Severn View Travelodge still issue Forte keyfobs (yes, key not keycard) albeit covered with a Travelodge label.  Except for a lick of paint, little has changed internally.

Plymouth based then?

The Penzance to London Paddington sleeper left two and a half hours late "owing to an earlier train fault".

It has made up just over half an hour of that delay as it approaches Reading.

Thursday wasn't a good day for fleet reliability with the 14:00 from Penzance leaving over an hour late and being declared a failure at Plymouth. There were also a number of cancellations on the Cardiff Central to London Paddington route.  The gas leak near Taunton just made things worse. The 15:00 from Plymouth was around two hours late into Paddington.

It eventually arrived Paddington at 06:09, 44 minutes late.

The NR log for the delay makes interesting reading and shows that a light loco had to run from Old Oak Common which got delayed by the gas leak.  It also shows what amendments to engineering possessions had to take place as a result:


Delays 77 mins     PENZANCE    WTG REPLACEMENT 57 FROM OOC

Log:
18:00 FGW has requested priority be given to 0Z57 1500 OOC to Penzance as this engine is required to work 1A40 2145 Penzance to Paddington as the engine that should work it has failed. Service will be double-headed tonight - with both the failed engine and the replacement engine. Signal boxes en route advised.
20:16 0Z57 currently running 35mins late due to earlier line blockage at Norton Fitzwarren (gas leak). This means 1A40 will be approx 45mins late departing Penzance. Penzance Signaller tipped off. This will cause delay to Item 76, but this can be accommodated.
21:23 Penzance Signaller advised that FGW predict 1A40 will only now depart at approx midnight.
00:05 The following planned engineering possessions were held off being taken due to late departure of 1A40 : Item 76 St Budeaux Ferry to Saltash due to be taken at 0010 hours Item 77 Truro to Roskear due to be taken at 0030 hours Item 78 Roskear to Long Rock due to be taken at 0030 hours
00:09 Plymouth signaller advised that the PICOP for Item 76 has cancelled the possession due to 1A40 not yet having left Penzance

Certainly sounds an eventful night.

Also noticed yesterday's 08:44 Penzance to London Paddington started at St Erth and was terminated at Reading. Dangerous to assume but I guess there was a problem with the country end power car and so it couldn't be driven from Long Rock to Penzance nor Paddington to Old Oak Common.

Crossed over a very swollen river on the approach to Exeter St David's about half an hour ago. There's a 20mph limit on a bridge and a few Network Rail staff keeping an eye on things.

Gosh. I think "interesting reading" is an understatement. Did the driver of the light engine end up having to return on the sleeper?

What time did the sleeper leave penzance, as I was up until around 0045 and didnt notice or hear it passing my house. (i look directly at the Angarrack viaduct about 20 from penzance)

It left at 00:15.

Well done, The Mirror! After a few years childrearing I'm back in the railway writing/PR game and back using the NR... isn't it wonderful how this allegedly loss making service is fully booked and profitable now? To think the then head press chief of the SRA tore me off a strip seven years ago for suggesting that DaFT didn't have a clue what they were on about!

So, if you happen to see me in the bar car of the NR when I'm on it - probably not until November now - do say hello!

Andy

The sleeper was always going to be late as the loco didn't leave OOC until 1500...  Not sure why they didn't use the pilot engine or whatever it is called to drag the carriages off of the depot at long rock to speed things up??

Can they not attach in the platform at PNZ?

The lack of information from "control" was nothing short of an embarrassment.  Surely they could have made some arrangements MUCH earlier on in the day?

I haven't found out quite what the fault was, I shall enquire.

I know we have had issues with 57605 blowing the internal fuses within the Auxilary Voltage Regulator at Paddington, the whole AVR has since been replaced with a new one. Three class 57/6's currently available for use.

From the First Great Western press release:


From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20236203):

A backward step IMHO.
I dont like duvets, and am far from alone in this.
Duvets are increasingly looked upon as the "cheap and nasty" option favoured by budget hotels and the less well off.
Polyester duvets are hot and sweaty, and feather ones are prone to damage, not readily washed, and some people are allergic to them.

A duvet cover is roughly the size and weight of two sheets, therefore twice as much water, fuel, and detergent used to wash it, as compared to a sheet.

I was wondering how well they would stay on the bed.  The bunk is tight against the wall so you cannot readily tuck it in down that side as you can with a sheet.  I think there is a danger as you turn in the night that the duvet might fall on the floor - especially annoying if you are in a twin and on the top bunk.

What will the passengers do upon arrival at Exeter who are bound for Exeter? Assuming there will be some form of onward travel?

-presumably?  But the line is closed between exeter and Taunton, I'd have expected road trainsport to Tauton to pick up the early morning train. 

I bet that's going to be lightly loaded... ;D :-X :P 21:45 Departure from Penzance  - Exeter St Davids. There should never be an occasion where that is deemed acceptable!

The news feed in the top corner shows

FGW timetables shows its meant to call at Taunton so why is it calling additionally at Taunton as well?

Calling pattern according to timetable is:

^London Paddington
^Reading
^Taunton (Not on Sunday's)
^Exeter St Davids
^Newton Abbot
^Totnes (Monday - Friday, Penzance to London Paddington only)
^Plymouth
^Liskeard
^Bodmin Parkway
^Lostwithiel (Monday - Friday, London Paddington to Penzance only)
^Par (Not on Sunday's - Penzance to London Paddington)
^St Austell
^Truro
^Redruth
^Camborne
^Hayle (Monday - Friday, London Paddington to Penzance only )
^St Erth
^Penzance

In addition the down isnt scheduled to arrive in Penzance until 0950!!!

Hi. This is because it was originally in the system to divert via Honiton. But has been put back to normal route but running later (down) / earlier (up)

The sleeper isn't booked to call at Taunton all this week as it's booked to run via Honiton because the line through Cowley Bridge is closed over night for repairs. Tonigh the sleepers have been altered to run via Taunton with the Penzance-London sleeper leaving earlier at 2040 and sitting at Taunton from 0036 to 0153. Passengers on the down sleeper have the delights of Tiverton Parkway to look forward to, it will be stopped there from 0251 to 0550, presumably waiting for the line to reopen.

Looking at the calling times it seems the down sleeper is planned to spend a while idling away in the Tiverton Parkway area, I assume waiting for overnight engineering work to finish.  Having travelled through there in daylight today there seems to be a lot to do.  Several large drums of cable being rolled out and some poor sod sheltering under an umbrella while working on a lineside cabinet were among the things I saw.

Edit: ^^  what he said  ^^

The up-sleeper berth passengers have been receiving phone calls to make them aware of the early starts from Penzance-Exeter, so most if not all of those who were booked on the up last night were on board.  A unit also ran PNZ-Exeter in the path of the original sleeper times with a bus going forward to Taunton to connect.

As has been stated, it is needing to clear Cowley Bridge as early as possible so they can close the line.  The original plan was to divert via Honiton & Yeovil but that line has been closed overnight also - which FGW were notified of late Monday afternoon, hence why Monday sleeper services were also cancelled.

It's not just the sleeper being affected by this closure - 2145 Paddington-Exeter via Bristol is also being terminated at Taunton (and the 0546 Exeter-Pad starts at Taunton at 0617).

Appears to have run rather late after a loco failure.

Anyone know where the replacement had to come from?

Normal operation to get the set from Old Oak Common to Paddington is to use two Class 57s.

The set was hauled back to Old Oak Common by a Class 08 shunter, where the defective Class 57 (57604 Pendennis Castle) was removed. The set was then reformed with the pilot Class 57 that had hauled it into Paddington. That's the loco that would normally be at the buffer stop and remain at Paddington after departure of the down Night Riviera.

After being reformed the set was hauled back to Paddington by the Class 08 shunter, leaving that at the buffer stop.

All that took some time to arrange, hence a rather late departure, 96 mins down, at 0121. Some spirited running down the B&H, and thanks to the long wait that is usually timetabled at Exeter St Davids, saw the service back on schedule by 0411.

Mechanical problem with the stock for the Up Sleeper means a predicted two hour late start from Penzance.

However some good customer service from FGW.  Would be passengers being told to catch the local service which normally follows the sleeper and once at Plymouth they will be provided with light refreshments while awaiting the sleeper's arrival from Cornwall.

Fingers crossed they can get the sleeper fixed. 

Not been a good period for the sleeper unfortunately. Sunday's up service was replaced by an HST, with passengers also offered the choice of travel on Monday am. And last week, or it may have been the week before, the down service was delayed leaving London by a couple of hours.

It was on 6 March, apparently: see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12122.0  ;)

Last night's up was also slightly delayed at Exeter while the man with the spanners attacked 57603 due to a loss of power.

Replacement fuel filters needed apparently.

Oh for electrification, eh?  :D

Just out of interest. How would sending pax to Plymouth help things assuming that the Sleeper will make an appearance anyway?

Or would the sleeper run fast to PLY?

That being said at least there would be the option for the very early AM HST service to London. Super Off Peak tickets on a Peak Time Train though...! ;D

The train to Plymouth is warm and dry, and there are waiting rooms and refreshments provided at Plymouth. Most the stations in Cornwall are unstaffed at this time of night and have limited shelter, much nicer for passengers to be waiting at Plymouth. The decision was taken in the end to run the sleeper non-stop to Plymouth as well to regain some time.

Service was 33late at Reading and On-time at Paddington.

 Made up 33 minutes on a 36 mile journey  what was it doing 200 mph?

That's not just padding that's verging on the obese.

It's the sleeper....prob does little more than 30mph...

It's booked 57 minutes Reading-Paddington.

Top speed is 95mph, extended time allows for problems such as those experienced and also allows for engineering, platform 1 to become available etc.

It's also only timed for 75mph so it doesn't have to be ran at full speed the whole way, a comfortable journey being preferable when people are sleeping. If the sleeper left Penzance at 2145 and ran at top speed through to London it would get there between 3.30am and 4am, which isn't exactly a sociable hour, there's no need to arrive that early.

It had been a fair old while since I'd travelled on First Great Western's Night Riviera, but I put that right with a trip up from Cornwall last Thursday.

Pretty much a spur of the moment decision which was decided upon after I was looking for something to do with with my Freedom of Severn & Solent Rover. Having checked the route of the up Sleeper for that evening, I found I could bookend my Rover with walk-up tickets for a reasonably price. There was an Off Peak Day Return from Tiverton to Redruth (that was as far south west as I could get from Bristol after making the decision to go) and a Super Off Peak Return from Trowbridge to London Paddington. That second ticket, in combination with the Rover, gave me full flexibility of routes after Taunton should there have been any last minute changes. As it turned out we took the route as booked. To Exeter then Taunton-Bristol-Bathampton Junction-(Trowbridge)-Hawkeridge Junction-Reading-Paddington.

The service was on time departing from Redruth, where there were at least half a dozen boarding for the beds with a handful more heading to the seated coaches. Not having paid for a berth I headed straight for the buffet to enquire about availability. "Plenty of room" was the answer, so I paid my ^50 berth supplement and the Lounge Car Stewardess radioed through to one of the Sleeper Stewards to let him know I was on the way through.

Shown to my berth, details taken and wake-up call and breakfast order placed. There was a choice of bacon baguette or Cornflakes/Muesli. I went for the Cornflakes. I was somewhat disappointed to learn that the breakfast beverage option was a hot drink or orange juice. I couldn't have both. No morning paper either. Never mind, I knew I'd have access to the 1st Class Lounge at Paddington in the morning where I could help myself to copious amounts of coffee if needed. The steward also talked me through the various button functions in the berth as well as the Volo TV, although I'm already familiar with these from previous trips. Also disappointing to note that there is no longer a complimentary toiletries pack. You just get a towel and a small bar of soap. 'Comfort Packs' are now sold as an optional extra from the buffet for ^5, although these appear to be more useful for seated sleeper passengers. I suspect the reason for cutting back on the toiletries is because nearly everyone will travel with their own. As was I. And in my washbag I still had a set of unused earplugs from a trip on the Highland Sleeper some 4 years ago. They were to come in handy.

After dumping my bag, coat and other bits and bobs I headed to the Lounge Car for a late night bite and a drink. Here again there is evidence of cost cutting. Just three choices of cold sandwich or a bacon baguette as the sole hot option. That's it for food excepting crisps and choccy bars. The kitchen is sufficiently well equipped to offer more than this and I would like to see some plated microwave meal options. If ScotRail can serve up haggis, neeps and tatties from their older Mk2 kitchens, surely FGW can manage something along the lines of a microwave curry or pasta dish. I was rather hoping to have something hot, but I'm pretty bored of the ubiquitous bacon baguette so I instead went for the chicken salad sandwich. Oh, and a half bottle Chilean Merlot as a sleeping aid!

I stayed in the Lounge Car until around St Germans, chatting with a fellow sleeper passenger before retiring to my berth. I mentioned earlier that the earplugs I had in my washbag were to come in handy. I'd been allocated a berth over a bogie and this particular bogie had a wheel flat. The noise wasn't unbearable but it did take me a fair while to get off to sleep. I did consider asking if I could be moved but I didn't really want the hassle of packing all my stuff up again. Before nodding off I watched some TV and had a beer. I think I fell asleep around Totnes at 0030 and I awoke to my phone alarm 10 minutes before the Steward knocked on my door with breakfast at 0600. I hadn't even woken when we arrived at Paddington. I'd managed to sleep through despite the noise and slight vibration from the wheel flat. Perhaps they were soporific. The wine and beer probably helped as well. Still, I was a bit bleary eyed - it was sleep, but not a good night's sleep.

After breakfast (of sorts) I had a strip wash, dressed and alighted. I went to the 1st Class Lounge to continue breakfast. There was a great selection of pastries, fresh fruit, cereals, hot and cold drinks and newspapers. The coffee was what I really wanted and the three cups went down well.

Despite the minor niggles - most of which appear to be a result of cost-cutting - I'd still use the service again. Two of the most evocative ways to travel by train are on a Sleeper and in a full service restaurant car. First Great Western are the only UK train company that give you the chance to do both. If you can find a reason to use the Sleeper or the Pullman, then do.

My top tips for the Sleeper. Try to get a berth in the centre of the carriage away from the bogies. Make sure you pack your washbag. Have a meal before boarding.

In the next post are a selection of photos from my trip.

Crossing into Cornwall on my way down to pick up The Night Riviera
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1783forum_zps7f86f574.jpg)

Looking back at Devon
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1786forum_zps73012609.jpg)

The Night Riviera arriving at Redruth, hauled by 57605 Totnes Castle
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1804forum_zps5d606998.jpg)

The Lounge Car for Sleeper berth passengers only
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1811forum_zpscc45758a.jpg)

Supper!
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1812forum_zps8154ae28.jpg)

Washbasin (window with blackout blind behind)
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1807forum_zps31c9ee39.jpg)

Plenty of 'Do's and Do Not's'. Time for those shaver sockets to be replaced with standard plug sockets
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1817forum_zps2123c31b.jpg)

Clean and comfortable bed
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1827forum_zpsfff8a82f.jpg)

Temperature and light controls. Call button for the steward and to the side a headphone socket for the Volo TV
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1830forum_zps17afc35e.jpg)

Tucked up in bed with a beer, and Doctor Who on the telly. Perfect!
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1820forum_zps16c79139.jpg)

Room service breakfast. Poor show
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1835forum_zps1decf5ab.jpg)

57603 Tintagel Castle backed onto the Up Sleeper at Paddington ready to haul the empty set to Old Oak Common
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1836forum_zps955c5697.jpg)

1st Class Lounge, Paddington. Excellent bean to cup coffee!
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/Night%20Riviera%20Sleeper%2018th%20April%202013/100_1841forum_zps6679bddc.jpg)

Thanks for posting BNM -  have often wondered what the sleeper was like and now I know!

Thanks again for the insite

First time I have seen the sleeper compartments since they introduced duvets.  Given that the berth is hard up against the wall so the ability to wedge it is limited, does the duvet stay on as you turn over in the night or are you in danger of waking up with a cold back?

I had no issue with the duvet. No cold back as I kept a t-shirt on. I did however awake to find that the mattress sheet had become untucked. Despite one leg being on the plastic covered mattress it didn't wake me.

Out of curiosity if the service is running to time does anyone  know what time the service passes through Thatcham ? If the wind is in the right direction I often hear a service pass through about 430 am

Brill, BNM.  A few thoughts.

Why can't the steward serve you coffee for an extra few quid if they are so tight with the extras?  Simple surely?

My own (and Mrs SWR's) problem with night trains is that they dump you at the destination at an unearthly hour.  Mrs SWR calls 0700 'the crack of dawn', even in July.  The other is indeed the need for earplugs.  The 'backpackers on the wayside station platform telling jokes to great mirth at 0300' syndrome is an old friend when we travelled abroad.

If the night train followed what Mr Collett in 1930 would have regarded as a fast freight time with a 47xx (I am contributing to its GWS resurrection), an arrival at 0730 would be much more pleasant.  Indeed if the train were sidetracked into a remote loop, all the better???

At the moment the up Sleeper is travelling via Bristol and Swindon. Last week it was travelling via Bristol and Trowbridge. Via Bristol and Swindon appears to be the case for weeks to come as well. When it does travel via the Berks & Hants it tends to pass Thatcham (if on time) around 0330. It's booked to set down at Reading at 0400 on weekdays.

Overnight engineering regularly affects the Night Riviera. It has many route options and very generous timings.

May that be the ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) for the 06:07 Frome to Paddington?

The ECS for the 0607 Frome-Paddington comes from St Phillips Marsh TMD, Bristol.

The up sleeper often calls at Swindon around 3.15am to pick up staff - it is not an advertised public call however but if I am up working I often hear it pulling in, especially in the summer when the windows are open.


Go to Fort William on the Caledonian Sleeper - you will have until nearly 10am on board - and some great scenery too.

Very good account BNM, thanks.  On your comment about Scotrail's hot food, the last time I came down from Fort William the kitchen was unable to produce even hot drinks and a regular who sat opposite me in the Lounge car told me that she'd stopped relying on it.  This was a couple of years ago and I'm sure things have improved since then: at least I hope they have.  I found it difficult to sleep through all the shunting at Edinburgh as the three portions were joined, but the FGW service is free from such hassles.  I intend to try the Cornish sleeper some time to compare experiences and your posting has reminded me to get on with it.

It did used to come from Paddington until a couple of years ago, and that probably would have been around 0430 at Thatcham. It's odd that orange juice and coffee aren't served with breakfast, as you can have free hot drinks in the evening, seems odd not to extend the offer to the morning as well.

It's possible I had a steward looking for an easy life. I didn't press the matter.

Just by way of comparison - here is the lounge car on the Caledonian Sleeper.  Not evident in the photo, but the chairs are not fixed to the floor which, I think, is unique on UK railways.
(Sorry about the ghostly reflection in the window...)
(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/scsleep2.jpg)

The berths are basically the same, although without the VOLO tv.  They also have more double berths and, certainly last summer, still had sheets rather than duvets.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/scsleep1.jpg)

Better selection of food on the Caley. I love the haggis, neeps and tatties with whisky sauce. Some decent ales and single malts as well. (Menu here (http://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/documents/ScotRail_Sleeper_Menu_Jan2012.pdf))

The only other train I've travelled on without fixed seating is the 1st Class section on the Ffestiniog Railway. You get wing-back armchairs in there!

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/7727_129196499471_6727179_n.jpg)

Certainly agree the food is excellent on the Highland sleepers. 

The steward on our down sleeper (the one that goes to Scotland) had been in the job for over 30 years and was due to retire last Christmas.  He acknowledged my aversion to "blue" cheese with ample portions of the other varieties!

As you might expect there was a good selection of whisky (note no "e") too!

I have used the Cornish sleepers much more than the Scottish but possibly because the FGW ones were for work rather than pleasure, unlike the Scottish ones, my view is biased but my overall impression of the Highland ones is better.  However from the practical point of getting to the West Country in time to do a day's work they are invaluable and I hope they continue for a long while.

Mr & Mrs Kernow Otter are heading up on the Night Riviera towards the end of this week, and for once have taken the berth option rather than the lounge carriages, predominantly because we managed to get some stupidly cheap Sleeper Advance Twin tickets, (has to be one of the better FGW ticket deals), a few months ago.

Really looking forward to the trip, despite the fact we have to travel to board at Par because the 'up' no longer stops at Lostwithiel.  So much for a couple of cheeky pints in The Globe before boarding...

If you use sleepers regularly you get used to asking for a berth in the middle of the coach. I find it is the most important thing to help you have the best sleep.

A warm welcome to the Coffee Shop Regulation9.

I agree with you.  When booking on line it is not always easy to get a middle berth although I have put successive bookings in my on line basket until I get the berth I want - and then deleted the others before going to the payment screen.  Used the same 'trick' for seats on day trains too.

Power sockets!

There ought to be a warning with your ticket....caught me out first time...

This hasn't been discussed yet but you can ask for a newspaper when the steward comes in with your breakfast. Although the breakfast on the Night Riviera isn't substantial it is at least free unlike the Caledonian.

I intend to go on the Caledonian this summer for the first time, looking forward to it!

Just one question about the arrival time I mentioned (also thus the speed of journey).

What are the thoughts on this?  Who wants to be turfed out at 0600?  I got the impression BNM, that in fact you were allowed to sleep on beyond the arrival time.  Is that so?   

0700 kick-out, isn't it?.....

I think it is about that - the stock goes back to Old Oak Common about 07:30.

Meanwhile in the down direction I think there is an easement which allows those travelling to South Devon to double back via Plymouth so they can have slightly longer in bed.  I cannot find it at the moment, but it may be a hangover from the days when a coach was detached at Plymouth.

0700 is indeed the kick out time for the up Sleeper.

Could have been worse - you might have felt the need to apologise about the ghastly reflection in the window ...  :P ::) ;D

Yes but why was the chef playing his guitar?

There is indeed such an easement in the National Routeing Guide:

Was an almost weekly user of the Sleeper in 2011/12, coming back late from London to Exeter. Work has now sent me West, and I quite miss my journeys.

I very much appreciated the civilised onboard lounge: used to get some rather envious glances from passengers on spartan late night local trains, and always raised a glass to them!

Have yet to travel up to London on this service, and agree that the lack of hot food choices is disappointing, come on FGW, how about some hot, locally made Cornish pasties?*

* Not those hideous things made somewhere near Callington, though.

Actually, the more I think about this...

Could there not be an option to purchase a supper tray when booking your berth? Simple meat or veggie option, crew bung it in the microwave and bingo, dinner is served. Microwave meals have come on leaps and bounds in recent years e.g. The Look What We Found range.

Easy bit of extra revenue and no wastage, what's to loose?

... Or even 'lose'  :-[

No time Toulouse.

Looks like a long, narrow residential care home.

I used the Night Riviera in both Seated and Berth Accommodation. When I was in the berth I was also under a carriage with a slight wheel flat; after requesting a berth as close to a toilet as possible. Probably for that reason is why FGW were able to facilitate such a request as everyone wants the middle berth ;) :D :)

But to be honest, it didn't bother me. In fact it probably helped me get a better nights sleep. I'm one of those awful people who cannot sleep in complete silence anyway and normally have a Fan running all night to solve that. Throw into the mix my regular, daily medication which is very sedating... Problem solved... ;D :D ;) :)

Not to mention having recently taken part in this event... http://www.mendipymca.org.uk/news.asp?info=Big%20Easy%20Sleep%20in%20Frome (http://www.mendipymca.org.uk/news.asp?info=Big%20Easy%20Sleep%20in%20Frome) for the Frome Mendip YMCA and Routes Youth Caf^ in Frome on the eve and day of my Birthday... Makes a wheel flat rather tame in comparison... ;D

*edited to add: Here are some pictures from the event if you're interested: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.489566447763784.1073741825.374881555898941&type=1 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.489566447763784.1073741825.374881555898941&type=1)

I don't feature in them though... (Well my Boot and Coat get honourable mentions and the cardboard tunnel I built...) I don't look good in a photograph :-X :-\ :-[

I always thought that 4 bottles of Tribute constitutes a balanced meal.... ;D

You should see it when a coach party is booked in  :)

I agree, Kernow Otter - particularly as it can be consumed, if necessary, without the need for any such adjuncts as a plate, knife, fork or spoon.  ;D

Would not two of Tribute and two of Proper Job be even more balanced?  Unless the one has a higher alcohol content than the other.

In this, Sir, you are mistaken.
Beer is most enjoyable, but is by no means a balanced meal unless accompanied with at the minimum a roast beef sandwich, and preferably a proper meal as may be taken on the Pullman.

A balanced meal recently consisted of a gin and tonic on the platform at Taunton, another one on the 13-23 from Taunton, smoked salmon, fillet steak, and a bottle of wine in the restaurant, followed by cheese and a little port.
On arrival at Padington I felt that the meal was best rounded of with a glass or two of Golden Pride in the station pub.

We health freaks go for whiskey. Made from grain, it is practically muesli.

Certainly agree with you on the Golden Pride - a big fan of Fullers beers and have enjoyed many a pint at the Mad Bishop and Bear at Paddington.  As chance would have it I had a bottle with my healthy salad this evening...
(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/golden.jpg)

On the subject of catering on the Sleeper most of my trips are in the Down direction which means boarding after 22:30 by which time I don't really want too large a meal.  However travelling in the opposite direction the slightly earlier departure might make a difference.

Great Western Coffee Shop (GWCS) - motto ' we keep heart surgeons in business'.

Personally I am convinced three glasses of Chilean Merlot a day are healthier than beer.  On glasses, I can get three full ones, before having to open another bottle.     ;D

Back on topic:

BNM's report about no tea or coffee (as well as juice) for wake up brekkers was disappointing to read.

I looked up the blurb at

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Your-journey/Night-Riviera-Sleeper/Cabin-Passenger

As you see it says:

'Your complimentary breakfast includes; a choice of cereals, a bacon baguette or a plain croissant (vegetarian option).'

Note the word 'includes'.  I would expect (and anyone else would expect, as BNM did) the orange juice or grapefruit juice and tea or coffee with that wording.

However I note that the 'host' will provide refreshments so perhaps that was an answer.

'Every train has a Customer Host who is there for your comfort and safety. Hosts are there to help you with your on board travel needs,  which includes providing refreshments to your cabin.'

Last. It says

'Cabin Ticket holders boarding the Night Riviera at London Paddington can use our First Class Lounge from 21.30, this is located on platform one.'

Again how odd not to mention that 'leavers' can too on the way back, unless BNM wasn't supposed to.

Perhaps I misread the page but then anyone else could, n'est-ce-pas??

There was annoyingly no link direct from the page about 'accommodation'' to the page from which I have quoted, or vice versa.

It needs attention, the whole suite of pages, in my view.

Sleeper customers can indeed use the First Class Lounge on arrival into Paddington. I thought the website always used to say that?

I wouldn't have been too fussed about the Orange Juice and Coffee being one or t'other. It's a help yourself First Class Lounge ;D

It's also the case with the Caledonian Sleepers into Euston. Where some sleeper passengers can use the Virgin Trains First Class Lounge and also use showers in there. You can use the Paddington Showers in the P1 Bogs if you're a sleeper passenger too for no charge. My advice... Don't...! Also the toilet attendant the last time I did this tried to take my ticket off me for "the paperwork"... Great... How exactly do I continue to Southend then?? >:( >:(

P1 bogs are now only open 0730-1930. A long trek over to P12 and showers there may or may not be available in the early AM. That is what I've just been told in a call to the Network Rail Reception at Paddington.

Time to email FGW and point out to them that their Sleeper arrives on P1 and the free shower facilities they advertise may or may not be available over the far side of the station, according to the station operator.

That's interesting... I didn't think P12 Bogs had showers?? At least that was what the attendants said to me there a couple of weeks back...?!?!

I ended up paying a fiver to use the ones at Kings Cross. Which are brand new so I didn't mind too much. As I was also not on the sleeper, I would've paid a fiver for a shower at Paddington anyway... Kings Cross certainly the better decision ;) :)

Still waiting for a definitive response from either FGW, Network Rail or the contractors, MITIE (I think) about shower facilities for arriving Sleeper passengers at Paddington. So far:

FGW Call Centre:
Yes P1. But when told these don't open until 0730, YES P12, but don't know opening hours or whether Sleeper passengers can use them free of charge.

Network Rail Customer Services:
Yes P1 0730-1930. Not sure about P12, here's the number for NR reception at Paddington.

Network Rail Reception Paddington:
NR: "I don't think there are showers on P12."
Me: "Can you check?"
NR: "Okay, we'll call you back."
Not called back, and today unable to get an answer.

MITIE
I'll find out for you and call you back. Called Friday AM. Still waiting for call back.

Have now asked formally on FGW Facebook after asking Ollie informally.

An object lesson in a fractured industry at work. Privatisation. Pah!  ::)

What's MITIE?  I can't find it in abbs.

Google says it's Management Incentive Through Investment Equity - some fancy recruitment agency.

Aren't MITIE a facilities management company? Cleaning, repairs, fire management etc.
mitie.com/about us

Um I did refer in my post to ...contractors, MITIE.

That's the name of a company that provide cleaning services for many stations and train operators. When I Google MITIE the first hit is the company concerned. Did you miss that? The only way I then find what MITIE stands for is after reading the Wikipedia entry for the company. They are quite clearly not 'some fancy recruitment agency' and I think, swrural, you are being just a little mischievous in questioning this name.

The reason you can't find it in the acronyms/abbreviations list is because it doesn't need to be there. That is list for predominantly rail related terminology, with some internet terminology/slang thrown in. Had I been talking about ICI, the RAC, IBM, Amstrad et seq. ad inifinitum I would equally not consider adding those to the list.

I see no need for a company name to be explained further or added to the forum list of acronyms/abbreviations.

And no, I won't be explaining the Latin either.

The plot thickens because I often see Interserve cleaners/vehicles at Paddington station? I know MITIE have a contract with FGW, who do also have a presence at Paddington obviously, but maybe MITIE don't clean everything there? Is it possible that Network Rail contract Interserve for cleaning at Paddington?

Anyway, I do know that the toilets on platform 12 ARE 24 hours, but I've never actually been inside to know if there is a shower or not.

Ahh, the thick plottens*

Maybe it is Interserve. I'll await further response from FGW (that's First Great Western, by the way).


*^Inspector Clouseau

Answer on the showers situation from FGW Facebook:


Thanks Ollie. Ever dependable, ever reliable.  ;D

It's been raised before, too, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=11165.msg116553#msg116553  ;)

No I got the recruitment people/

How would one know it was not rail-related, especially as it is apparently?

Why is then is FGW in abbs for example, and MITIE not (searching for logic here with the excuse it was the mods who got all keen about this nonsense, not I)?

Mitie is not an abbreviation!  It's the full name of a Company.

Ah, that explains it!  It was written in full capitals in BNM's post.  Mind you, Google doesn't know capitals......

It probably shews I don't go near Paddington nowadays as I'll bet their name is plastered all over their high viz jackets or somesuch, so frequent pax will doubtless be familiar with them.

- whereas I in my SWT cocoon.....

The most important point from BNM's Sleeper review still stands.  The web site is uninformative or misleading and unconnected.   

Network Rail Paddington tweeted last night


Mind you, seems they cater for extra-terrestrials too....see attachment!

EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!

That ever so slightly resembles a Darlik!

I can't decide if that is a minor photoshop on your part ChrisB or someone at Paddington has drawn that white line there... ;D

It more closely resembles a Dalek - and there's no need to SHOUT on the forum.  ;D

An update from me. It seems that main concourse at Paddington is cleaned by staff from Initial!

I bet that in addition to MITIE, Interserve and Initial there are probably a few other cleaning contractors used by maybe LUL and the retail units - it might be possible that every large company offering cleaning services has a presence at Paddington.

If Mitie is someone's name, as BNM informed us, why is it spelt with capital letters?  Incidentally, I have to warn that London Underground Limited is best not abbreviated to initials when in the company of the Dutch.

It means to them 'prick' in the sense that one would wish to avoid.  Worse still, it is used as the word c**t when yelling in road rage at another motorist, for example, so a much stronger profanity. 

I start every time I come across it.  Perhaps LU would be better.

BNM did not say it was a persons name.  It is the name of the company. http://www.mitie.com/ (http://www.mitie.com/). The company always presents the word in capitals in their branding.



Their website http://http://www.mitie.com/about-us/our-history (http://http://www.mitie.com/about-us/our-history) confirms what swrural reported to us previously, but that is not the official name of the company, which is just the five letters.

They are one of the largest outsourcing companies and you see their name come up in all sorts of contexts and the rail sector is only a very small part of their work.

There work is very diverse, but Recruitment is not something on the list of services on their website.

Re:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12330.0;attach=662;image)

I was at London Victoria earlier today. This is a doctored (ahem) image of the entrance to the main toilet facilities. The right hand 'showers' pictogram has been photoshopped for comic affect. The picture is also dated as there are no longer showers at VIC. The right hand side now shows a pictogram for 'baby changing facilities'.

The Night Riviera sleeper service between Paddington and the West Country is celebrating it's 30th anniversary tonight.

Sleeper services on this route have been running since 1877, but the service was relaunched with Mk3 rolling stock on 11th July 1983.

Bubbly and cupcakes are being served to customers on the up and down services tonight.

FGW have posted about the anniversary on their Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151500307111806&set=a.10150211411466806.312373.345127331805&type=1&theater

 :'( :'(  That makes me feel very very ............... errrr very old

When I worked at Padd ODM one morning I was given a job sheet by the chargehand to set up all the temporary lighting and supplies for a exhibition on "The Lawn"

Took the best part of a week to wire it all up, had to set up all the stage flood lights and controls for the catwalk, help the contractors set all the sound system up.

I got the job because I was the only electrician train on the "new" hydraulic accesses they are as common as anything nowadays but then they were very novel its main purpose was to service all the 1000W lights on the station and all the 8' florescent fittings on the Lawn

I recall some manager had a bight idea to cover the lawn with grass then thought through the practicalities of that and then looked at astroturf until they found out how much it would cost.  There were hired in palm trees tents, I think there was even some sand

Me at the tradesmans mate who worked on the job got free tickets to the event and some nice BR bubbly and nibbles ......................... then the next day break it all down

Won't be popular tonight - Sunday is usually pretty busy - hopefully the regulars are on holiday....


(A shame the template they have to use for the website only includes "Additional Facilities")   :-[

I assume there will be an empty stock working at some point tomorrow to get one set back to London.  57603 "Tintagel Castle" should be involved at some point - saw it in the sidings at Long Rock on Saturday night with the ill-fated rake of sleeper coaches.

Knock on effect is the 07:41 Penzance to London Paddington will start from Exeter St David's because the HST planned to run the service was used for the sleeper.

Not much help taking the XC service if trying to get to work anywhere East of Camborne for 9am though. I imagine a lot of late people to work in Cornwall this morning.

The XC service also stopped at Hayle and 1A81 is stopping at Saltash & St. Germans additionally.

ITV Westcountry were invited aboard the up Night Riviera on 11th July 2013.

Report and video at the following link:

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/search/?q=all+aboard+the+night+train

Sleeper carriages have a few more years left in them. But those Class 57s? Parts of them are nearly 50 years old. It's always them that cause cancellations of the Sleeper service. Time that alternative traction was looked at.

The Mk111 sleepers were introduced as a consequence of the Taunton Fire in 1978 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taunton_sleeping_car_fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taunton_sleeping_car_fire) the Mk1 sleeper were not destined to be replaced BR and the DoT and particularly the MP's did not want to go through the flak that withdrawal of the service would have caused.

Sleeper set went through Dawlish mid morning on the up.

It ran in the path of the 0740 although was approx 20 early at Saltash due to non stop.

The tragic Taunton sleeper train fire in 1978 was also discussed on this forum at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3153.0  :(

Was this a 57 fault again? If so FGW seriously need to look at alternative motive power, as there are only so many times you can let your customers down before they look elsewhere e.g stay in a hotel

And what options would there realistically be to replace the 57s, as HST power cars are not an option yet?

But if they use a hotel, they will use a day train to get there. Guess what they are operated by the same company so irrelevant to FGW really.

if the sleeper class 57 problems are getting more frequent then surely retire them and hire class 67's?
i do not know if class 66 could be used for sleeper coach hauling?

what do you need, 3 of them?

pity you cannot use HST power cars, something to do with 2 different voltages and electric wiring on HST mk3 coaches and normal mk3 coaches...totally incompatible..hmmm what a great way to build things

Power Cars will no doubt be used in the future after IEP happens, however even if they were compatible, are there even any spares to use?

On arrival at Paddington this morning (Friday 4th October ) the overnight sleeper was parked on p1 as normal but at the main concourse end it was fronted by two back to back class 43 power units

Was there a problem with the normal power unit on this service?

Thanks out of curiosity

Dave

Mod Note: Thread title changed for accuracy and ease of future reference.

An infrequent occurrence when the usual Class 57 loco fails, but one for which a back-up plan is in place.

Provided Laira depot in Plymouth have a couple of spare HST power cars (Class 43s) and time to send them down to to wherever the Class 57 has failed* this is a novel solution to ensure the beds still run. The alternative is to use a normal HST set, but that then means Sleeper passengers may have to be woken up if the service fails after departure from Penzance, transferred to the HST set, they only then get a seat, and berth fares have to be refunded.

It has to be back-to-back Class 43s as they can only couple to the Class 57 from the pointy end. Coupling equipment is usually hidden out of site behind the 'First' logo on the front of the HST power cars.

Similar arrangements can be made in the other direction with spare Class 43s or a HST set from Old Oak Common.

*Last night the up Night Riviera failed at Liskeard when the GSM-R (cab to signaller communication) in the Class 57 died. The driver took the set forward to Plymouth, communicating with the signaller on his own mobile phone. At Plymouth the back-to back Class 43s were attached, having been sent from Laira Depot. The service was around 80 minutes late by Taunton, but due to the generous timings allowed in the Working Timetable and, I suspect, some faster running (the sleeper rarely runs at line speed) it was able to make up all that time, arriving at Paddington 1 minute early!

Thanks BNM for the comprehensive reply. I seem to remember someone on here had noted this happening before.

It's something that FGW have been doing for many years when necessity requires.

Here's a video of a 43 'double header' Sleeper, from 2006:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJYbXNy5cWQ

Regarding it being noted on this forum before....

From this post (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=489.msg105796#msg105796), et seq, you'll see, BerkshireBugsy, that you commented on a similar occurrence last year.  ;) ;D

Just been looking at the Real Train Times entry for last night's sleeper - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P00039/2013/10/03/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P00039/2013/10/03/advanced) - and it seems its quest to make up time was also helped by the decision to route it via Athelney rather than the planned route via Bristol.

As we have noted before the sleeper takes a range of different routes - the most common for the up service is via Bristol and Swindon, where it makes an unadvertised stop for staff.  Last night's original plan was a variation on that - still via Bristol but then through Trowbridge and onto the Berks & Hants at Westbury.

Whether the change was made to allow it to make up time or because late running got in the way of engineering work I don't know, although I note the 21:45 Paddington to Exeter service was delayed by over 45 minutes between Bristol and Taunton in the opposite direction.

Common place in Australia.  This one was the overnight countrylink service between Melbourne and Sydney.  Didn't get a berth, but interestingly all the seating was swing reversable recliners so that everyone got to face the direction of travel.  12 hours and not hanging around.  2 or 3 intermediate stops so lots of running at what the thing was designed for - distance at speed.

Lovely, maybe the future for FGW's sleeper post IEP ?

UK Class 43s are incompatible with the Mk3 Sleeper coaches, so they cannot haul the sets directly. If memory serves me correctly it's something to do with the electric supply from the loco to the carriages. Class 43s provide a  three phase electric supply direct to the Mk3 carriages in a HST set. Loco hauled Mk3s take a single phase supply from the loco and convert it to three phase by way of a motor generator under each coach.

Provided a failed Class 57 Night Riviera loco can still supply electricity to the coaches it can be hauled by the double Class 43s.

When the Mk3 Sleepers and other loco hauled Mk3s were being built it was cheaper to fit them with motor generators than it was to convert all the different loco types that would be used to haul them.

I suspect the CountryLink Class 43 derivatives (now operated by NSW TrainLink) don't have this problem and can therefore haul both day and night coaches.

Thanks for reminding me BNM -  it's all coming back to me now (cue meatloaf)

No thanks. I have a cold and consequently little appetite.  :P ;) ;D

gosh it seems that in 2013 we really are running a mend and make do railway!

in the 21st century this is totally unacceptable and appalling the Govt allowed this to happen and there are no new build stock on order apart from the IEP electrification units (from Hitachi in 2017/18)
local FGW services will then get class 319 (old Thameslink units) to replace turbos...

HST power cars cannot pull sleeper or loco hauled mk3 coaches as they have 2 different electric systems,

half the Uk's fleet of trains cannot be coupled to other stock/loco's and such anomalies.

the class 57 loco's are as old as i am...(The HST's are old too but FGW have done a pretty good job in updating and they are the best trains to travel on but how long can they go on)

i know all of these points have been pontificated on here widely but i'm entitled to my rant lol

Re. the 319 cascade, I think you will find this is no longer the case, new EMU's will be the order of the day.

re 319's

but nothing yet has been ordered?... ::)

Wasn't Southern asked to order a batch of new EMUs for temporary use on Thameslink due to the delay in getting the Desiro City order signed off? Not sure if any further announcements have been made regarding where they will go once the Desiro City units arrive, but GreatWestern Thames Valley services were one the roumors I think.

Yes the class 387 fleet. I am not too sure whether these would be from Bombardier or Seimens.

The annoucement from Seimens that they can get the class 380's to do up to 118mph does give some suspicion with the GW emu fleet since it would mean the local services to Newbury and Bedwyn could be worked by the emu's on the fast lines slotting in nicely between the IEP services.

Depending on the numbers perhaps some of the IEP units could be freed up allowing more services to be worked by pairs of units

The 387 fleet order (for temporary use on Thameslink then cascade) has already been awarded to Bombardier, back in July.  It is expected to be 110 mph capable.

In the last few years SN have awarded three batches of new trains to Bombardier, basically as agents for DfT.  This was the position at the time DfT announced it, I've separated the 3 orders and added comments:


There is evidence that DfT are doing plenty of background moves aimed at cascading units off Thameslink.  The only thing they haven't come out and published is that XXX will be used on the GWML to Newbury and Oxford etc...

However it now seems to me that what Siemens can do with the Desiro speed is only of academic interest here, especially if as expected the 387s do come to the GW.

I can't help feeling that there is something not quite right about the top speeds of the new-build suburban sets, regardless of who builds them.

It is often stated that one of the critical factors in line capacity on the Mains is the speed difference between the 125 mph HSTs and Class 180s on the one hand and the 90 mph Turbos on the other. Assuming a 110/115 mph top speed these new build emus will narrow the gap but the Hitachi SETs (aka IEPs) are specified for a future top speed of 140 mph.

So the speed gap will open up again and we will be back to where we are now - only just a bit faster! Could it be that, for reasons of track capacity, the effective top speed of the trains between Paddington and Reading and Didcot will remain at 125 mph?

Apparently if the speed goes above 118mph (actually 190kph) then a much enhanced set of European guidelines will apply, so this is likely to be the limit of emu speed for non "intercity" services.  But you are correct, if and when IEP goes up to 140mph then the benefit will be diminished again. Though it's still better to have a differential from 140 to 115 than 140 to 100.

 

Bit of a hold-up on the up sleeper this evening. Train left Penzance on time but was then delayed at St Erth for an hour and a half while fitters fixed an on board fault.

The train will no doubt make up time by Reading and London. However for those in Cornwall and South Devon there will have been a bit of a wait in this evening's torrential rain.

As I understand it was delayed due to a CDL fault with the set at St Erth to which fitters attended from Long Rock. 1A40 was running 92 Late but was an On Time Departure from Reading.

CDL?

CDL ... Central Door Locking

From the 'Acronyms/Abbreviations' page.  ;)

I believe the fault was with the cabling between two of the coaches.  Once it was fixed I think there was a further issue with the fire alarm system which also had to be rectified before leaving St. Erth.

Just one click away (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html) to find out...

What better place to fix an electrical fault than St Erth?

Link to a video showing the plans by FGW to refurbish the sleeper down to Penzance.  (Shame the picture they've used is a Class 180 though!)

Looks very impressive.

http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/VIDEO-Great-Western-reveals-refurbished-sleeper/story-21323692-detail/story.html

The cocktail bar area looks a tad out of gauge.

Also maybe its just the video, but it seems to me they are turning the berth into a 4 people berth. You can see past the wardrobe hanger thingy into the next berth.
It does look very much like the DB Night Zug with the hanger thingy and washbasin combined.

They're mirrors!

A refurbishment seems a half hearted answer for rolling stock that is already over 30 years old. If the government were really committed to the sleeper for the long term it would have taken the opportunity to piggy back off the Scottish sleeper procurement and buy stock that could underpin the service for a further thirty years.  If in another 5 to 10 years new stock is required, such a small order will be prohibitively expensive.

How much is a refurbishment really required?  The sleeper berth I travelled in recently was clean and still faitly modern looking.

As for the buffet car, does it really see much use on a service departing 23:45 and arriving at the final destination at 07:50ish?  Talking to others in the 1st class lounge at Paddington, it seemed to be that most people ate something on the station (or near home/work) before boarding.

Additional facilities like showers at Penzance and wi-fi/proper plug sockets would be most welcome.

I wonder whether FGW will be looking to use Class 67s or 68s in the near future?

Generally busy until 0100 (mainly drinks), but then empty until breakfast time, when some come down to take breakfast there.

The 57s have a pretty poor reliability record, and at the end of the day are 1960s build, so would hope so

I do not think that providing "proper" socket outlets in sleeper cabins would be a good idea.
Since use can not be supervised I forsee the use of kettles, hair dryers, curling tongs, and other unsuitable appliances with risk of fire or other accident.

WiFi, certainly, 5 volt USB charging outlets perhaps, but unsupervised 230 volts no way.

47s may be 1960s build, but isn't the idea behind the 57s that they have yougner internals (I once thought they had new engines, but then somebody told me second-hand engines were fitted)? With Chiltern replacing their 67s though, using 67s does seem more likely than spending money to make the 57s more reliable.

Unless each berth has a separate circuit breaker which will then trip when the load is too much, but yeah I can see issues with 230v which is unsupervised.

Chiltern are replacing the 67s because they are incredibly unreliable! Not really suitable for overnight journeys....

I thought it was that 67s drink fuel faster than 68s, but I'm not sure enough 68s have been ordered for the sleeper to use them too. Didn't FirstGW replace the 57/3s on Cardiff-Taunton workings with 67s because the 67s were more reliable?

Check out the failure rtate of those Silver Trains and you'll see the problem.....

There will be enough 68s to go around - not just the 6 Chiltern have leased....

Despite having poor reliability, I think the 67s on Chiltern are more reliable than the 57s on FGW though.

Weekly (at least) failures?

Most nights with the 57s I think  ;)  An 08 was despatched to drag the carriages in from Paddington to the Oak the morning before last again.

Last night's Down sleeper..........looks like a nice lie-in for the customers!!!

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:53 This train has been delayed between Taunton and Exeter St Davids by 163 minutes.
This is due to a broken down train.
Additional Information:
Customers waiting at stations between Plymouth and Penzance are able to travel on CrossCountry 06:28 Plymouth to Penzance service. Tickets will be vaild on this service.

57 engine failed just before entering Whiteball Tunnel - just before Tiverton (shut down and wouldn't restart).  HST from 0546 EXD-PAD 1A73 was sent to rescue it as only loco in area was DB's in Riverside Yard, but had no driver until 0615.  1A73 started as a 3-car Turbo at Bedwyn.

Sleeper set still at Exeter with a DRS loco, so actually an early wakeup and set swap  :-\

Ouch..........plenty of free bacon rolls all round I hope?  :-[

Delivery at Plymouth, so probably not!


Tonight's up-sleeper will be a HST between Penzance & Plymouth, with the sleeper starting at Plymouth.

More problems with the 57s.

Time for a change of motive power

Update at 06:12 - 1C99 now on the move.

Update at 06:00 - Customers waiting at stations between Plymouth and Penzance are able to travel on CrossCountry 1C09 06:28 Plymouth to Penzance service. Tickets will be vaild on this service.

Update at 05:30 - Driver 1Z99 has picked up the driver of 1C99 and they will shortly proceed through Whiteball Tunnel. Drivers have agreed for up trains to pass site whilst coupling is undertaken, but up trains will be stopped at UM174 signal on approach to Whiteball Tunnel and advised of the failure.

Due to engine shutdown at Whiteball Tunnel. HST in Exeter New Yard (Set for 1A73) will attach to 1C99 and drag stock into Exeter station. HST in Plymouth Station (Set for 1A75 and driver) will run EHST to Exeter to pick up passengers Ex 1C99 and convey them to Penzance. 1A75 service cancelled as a result. Stop orders on 1A74 Totnes, Dawlish and Pewsey as per contingency.


(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t1.0-9/10592857_746576712074970_4162482862468445962_n.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10378162_10152238748345894_2542978492209309695_n.jpg)

..and terminating at Bristol Parkway.

Left Plymouth with a class 57 on each end just for good measure but one failed at Bathampton Junction.  Decision was taken to reverse the train using the one on the back to return to Bristol and use the Rhubarb curve to get to the Badminton Line.  Unfortunately the other loco then failed just after Bristol Parkway where (at 06:45) it sits awaiting assistance to be dragged back to the platform.

57s used to work Cardiff to Taunton but were eventually replaced by 67s to increase reliability.  LHCS on this route no more now of course.   ATW used to use 57s on the
Welsh Government Cardiff to Holyhead but replaced them by 67s to increase reliability.

It's not even just FGW 57s, the reason the sleeper started at Plymouth was because the DRS loco was struggling over the Devon banks to Plymouth due to low power, and the decision was made to run it on the back with the 'fixed' 57 pulling.  When the FGW 57 went pop at Bathampton, they thought the DRS 57 would be able to make it to Paddington, but that suitably gave up the ghost too very quickly.

There's a rake of sleeper carriages, 2xfgw 57s and 1 DRS 57 sitting outside Southall at the moment.
Suspect the sleeper issues tonight gonna be interesting.

Maybe they will use some steam from Southall to run it..... :D

A light loco was sent to pick up the sleeper coaches and two failed 57s from Bristol Temple Meads.

After running early it looks like they were held at Southall awaiting access to Old Oak Common

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O21551/2014/08/07/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O21551/2014/08/07/advanced)

Did the sleepers run as scheduled last night?

According to Real Time Trains a service ran in each direction in the times of the sleeper, so in the absence of any notes on Journeycheck overnight about a change of facilities I would hazard an educated guess that they did.

Last night's 1A40 PNZ-PAD was terminated at Bristol Parkway due to a train fault apparently.

Last night's 1C99 PAD-PNZ appears to have made it all the way.

Blimey..........not a good week for the sleeper, maybe it should be renamed the Insomnia Express!!!

Sorry to doubt you but wasn't that the night before?

That was a funny route to take

Historical info left on Journey Check.  Possible confusing because of overnight.

We've got an old thread somewhere that came up with a lot (I think it was over a dozen) different routes.

As far west as Plymouth, there are three sections of railway that it must traverse ...
* Paddington to Old Oak
* Exeter St David's to Newton Abbott
* Newton Abbott to Plymouth

There are a lot of tracks from Paddington to Old Oak, and in the event of major problems there alternative arrangements could no doubt be made at Euston / Waterloo / Olypmia.   Exeter to Newton Abbott would be mostly fixed by one of the "new inland line" options talked about to bypass the Dawlish sea wall, and it would also be fixed by Okehampton to Tavistock.  Newton Abbott to Plymouth would also be fixed by Okehampton to Tavistock, but not by the other bypass options.   As we move towards Network Rail's 7 day railway, odd routings will turn up on lots of other super-duper-offpeak services!

In this particular case the answer is closer to home - higher up this thread.  ;)

May not be directly attributable to the loco but both yesterday and today's northbound ATW Premier Services from Cardiff have not reached Holyhead.  Yesterday's was terminated at Shrewsbury (which meant no southbound one this morning) and tonight's only reached Abergavenny.   Both listed as train faults.

Tonight's problem is brake issues.  Running ECS back to Cardiff apparently.

Administrator note:

Subsequent posts regarding a spate of specific failures on the Sleeper service in August 2014 have been split off into a separate topic, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14355.0

Chris from Nailsea. :)

Morning all. New arrival here. 1C99 down sleepers 21/08/2014 left Paddington late for Thursday (well into the small hours of Friday) despite boarding on time.  As I was asleep until we jerked into motion I don't know what time we actually left. Judging by the piles of bedding in the lounge car there seemed to be a problem in one of the sleepers.

Anyone know what time the train actually departed and why it was delayed?

Running was very fast, rough at times, and with the usual hour at Exeter apparently cut to a couple of minutes. Right time was not regained until Hayle by my reckoning.

On the positive side 57605 achieved an end-to-end run and also returned me perfectly punctually on 1A40 Friday night 29th

Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Gwiwer, and thanks for giving us all some useful background information when asking your question.  :)

Personally, I don't know the answer, but I'm sure we have other members here who can help with that one!  :D

Left 41 minutes late after fitters fixed an air conditioning fault.

It looks like the deal to upgrade the Night Riviera has now been done & dusted.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/minister-to-sign-200-million-cornwall-and-isles-of-scilly-growth-deal

Sadly, the one major reliability problem with the Night Riviera won't be addressed by this funding. The locomotives.

It really is time an alternative was sought for the Class 57s. They've done the job fairly well, but they are a bag of reconditioned components, with parts of them being over 40 years old.

Sounds like a job for class 68 variants perhaps?

Who pays for them?

Just out of interest, how well used is the Night Riviera? (Both directions?)

Are all the berths/seats generally full every night or is it more heavily loaded some nights than others?

Anyone got experience of doing the full journey in a seat rather than a berth?

An extra coach of sleeper berths is usually added on the westbound trip on a Friday night and comes back up on the Sunday night service from Cornwall as those two trains are usually quite busy.  The rest of the time you can quite often get a berth on the day; you can book on line til 6pm - but I wouldn't recommend just turning up on the platform unless it really is a last minute decision.  The train goes slower than the day trains which is great if you are in a bed, not so good if you are in a seat.

Thanks for that - I'm often tempted to give it a go from PAD - PLY however getting turfed out on arrival at 0514 isn't really ideal!!!

Yes it is a shame they no longer detach a coach at Plymouth as they used to.

I have travelled beyond Plymouth into Cornwall and got a single ticket back just to get an extra lie in. You can still arrive in Plymouth before the first "day" train.

I remember seeing this coach with its 08 shunter, so I'm guessing the cost of crewing the shunter was the issue here?

Now the Royal Mail sidings are redundant, could the 57 not undertake the shunting itself? That way, the coach can be left in the sidings during the day and not block the running lines.

It would still have to be taken out to Laira to be serviced, bedding changed, toilet tanks emptied & water tanks filled

From the Railway Gazette (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/toilet-upgrading-contract.html):

That toilet module looks substantially larger than the existing toilets.  Will there be a reduction in berth capacity to fit these modules into the existing stock?

(Also, toilet module sounds like something one would be installing on the International Space Station, not a train)

Funnily enough, I've just been watching a youtube clip of NASA astronaut Sunita Williams giving a guided tour of the ISS. The toilet facilities there seem very 'Heath Robinson' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Heath_Robinson) in comparison to the very high technology that keeps the ISS orbiting and the astronauts alive.

http://youtu.be/doN4t5NKW-k?t=9m9s

If they are making the toilets on the sleeper compliant, are they going to do the same with the doors (either fitting internal handles or replacing them with power-operated doors)?

For one moment there I thought we were in for a clip from The Big Bang Theory !.

I think that the amount of toilets per coach will drop from 2 to 1 as a result of fitting a much larger single compartment. I doubt this will affect the size/number of the berths.

So now there will be a wheelchair friendly toilet. Great! That'll go well with the disabled friendly berth and doors that are already there.......  ;)

One can only but assume that disabled berth(s) are also being fitted.

Not been a good couple of nights for the sleepers.

On Thursday into Friday the Up sleeper needed fitters attention at Plymouth due to brake problems, having skipped stops in Cornwall.  It couldn't be fixed and was replaced an HST for the rest of the journey.  This meant one of the early services from Plymouth to London was cancelled.

The stock was worked on at Laira and left for London mid-afternoon but failed again shortly after leaving Plymouth and had to be hauled back to the depot.  Therefore tonight's service from London will be an HST. 

Meanwhile last night's down sleeper needed attention from the men with spanners in Devon due to brake problems but did make it to Cornwall with only a 10 minute delay.

I am using the sleepers twice in the next three weeks so that is bound to be a jinx!

Problems last night too - sounds like westbound ran with a normal HST set so no beds, and eastbound had mechanical problems and a pretty hefty delay.

57s... 57s... 57s...  :-\

Problems again for the westbound sleeper early Monday morning.  The service came to a stand at Exeter St Thomas and had to be taken back to St Davids where it terminated.

The up is starting from Plymouth at 2355 tonight.

Hauled by 2 Power Cars, I believe.

They really do need to look at getting some new motive power for the sleeper service as this lack of realiabibity could do damage to the good reputation of the Night Riveria in the long term if not sorted soon.

Another train fault halted the down sleeper this morning. This time it was the turn of the hired in DRS loco which failed shortly after leaving Exeter St Davids. As it was too late to cancel the early morning HST from Exeter to PAD customers, were directed onto either the 153 to Par or the 150 to Penzance. 2 spare HST locos were sent from Laira to rescue the set and (after sitting in Platform 4 for a while) drag it back to Plymouth.

Tonights UP sleeper will start from Plymouth (if the fault has been fixed!)

Rob in the other thread its been posted tonight's Up will be hauled by a pair of HSTs.

With 57310 providing electric train supply only.

Reliability seems to be a growing issue across all FGW services at the moment, there seems to be more cancellations/short formations due to "train faults" than ever before.......I've seen some pictures on Twitter of the sleeper at Plymouth last night with the 2 power cars - seems to have been more trainspotters than passengers on the platform! Quite an unusual sight I guess.

On the brighter side... At least everyone on board could have had some form of lie in on a Monday Morning; D :D :P

More problems today. 57303 was declared a failiure at Long Rock upon arrival after working the down sleeper last night. Looking at fixing it in time for tonight's service.

Another issue last night.  The down sleeper experienced loco problems around Swindon.  However, perhaps anticipating difficulties, there was another loco on the back and that was run round to take the service forward.

It reached Taunton almost an hour late but recovered most of that time by Cornwall.

Again, last night (Thursday) the Penzance - Paddington sleeper failed at Taunton. After some "swapsies" with a loco from the sleeper train going the other way it left Taunton 2 1/2 hours late, avoided Swindon (no comment - see another thread!!)  and arrived in London 1 1/2 hour late

I know - I was on it!!

Actually to be truthful I didn't know.  I woke up just before six to find us on the Berks & Hants line rather than the expected Hullavington/Swindon route.

We left Plymouth with hired in 57303 and 57310 on the front and arrived at Paddington with 57303 replaced by 57603.

Now had a chance to download my camera.

Here was the duo which brought the sleeper in on Friday morning.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/sleep1912.jpg)

Just thought I would report that for what seems like the first time in a while both sleepers ran on Sunday night without fault and arrived at their destinations bang on time (a rare event for the down sleeper). Let's hope it continues through through to Chrsitmas.

Should still be on time by Paddington?

Now 64 late.

Knock on effect of signalling problems delaying the crew into Penzance rather than a problem with the train this time.

Arrived Paddington at 0459, 24 early.  Late at all intermediate stops, but caught up some time between Reading and Paddington.

The Night Riviera service resumed last night - and quickly ran into problems.

The westbound service tripped the hotbox detector near Swindon and was held at the station for over two hours until the eastbound service arrived for the usual staff pickup just after 3am.  The two locos were then used to shunt the offending coach out of the train and left it in the yard to the east of the station.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/sleswi.jpg)

The down service then resumed its journey 2 hours and 45 minutes late.  The up was delayed by 45 mins.  As usual both made up some of the delay before their final destinations.

I was on the up service and only a third of the beds were taken, which surprised both me and the crew. 

Following the recent problems both services now have a travelling fitter on board.

Why would nsny journey/return to London today? Very few back at work, surely more likely to be full on Sundayvready for the first main day back at the grindstone

Down sleeper also had 57310 on the back as well as 57602 for power. I guess as only one driver was present on the train that they had to wait for the up sleeper to assist. At least the locos ran well!

I trust that any passengers in that Mk3 SLEP were moved to alternative accommodation. I can think of little worse than waking up in a siding in Swindon when you were expecting Paddington. Unless of course your ultimate destination is Swindon. :P ;) ;D

On a technical note, does anyone know how long the batteries are good for, for those red lamps on the SLEP?

............I can't think of anything worse than waking up in Swindon full stop!  :D

........heard there were problems again last night with the Up Sleeper, late departure?

I wake up most mornings in Swindon and I'm a normal well rounded individual (quiet CfN).  ;D

There was a late start last night from Penzance.  Problems setting up the loco. All but a few minutes of the delay recovered by Paddington.

Batteries that are in good condition should last about 2 hours with non-essential equipment switched off.

Were there any passengers on the offending coach that has to be moved in the middle of the night?  Or indeed did others need to be moved while they shunted other coaches to get that one out? 

That photo was taken about 5 hours after the coach was detached.

I don't know as I was on the sleeper going towards London.  I also don't know whereabouts in the train the coach was.

I think it was the rear coach.  I don't know if anyone was in it.  If it was lightly loaded, then chances are they would have moved them forward.

I can confirm, having met him more than once, that my colleague bobm is indeed a well rounded individual.  :P

....just a question........why does the sleeper have "old fashioned" locos attached to it rather than HST engines? Do you think that this is an issue when it comes to reliability? Are they much older?

Much more of this reliability, then I can see the day when the first HST sets to be displaced by IEP, being retained and adapted to run top and tail on the sleeper stock.  Woulld this need much adaption assuming line speed remains the same ?

I am sure someone can explain this better than me, but the basic issue is the electrical supply provided by HST power cars is incompatible with the sleeper stock.  How difficult it would be to convert I have no idea.

They would need a complete rewire to include the wiring for the control system that links the two power cars apart from anything else.  But conversion has been done before some HST coaches are adapted from old WCML Mk3 Coaches I believe.  It would be best done as part of a major refurbishment programme.

Such as the forthcoming refurbishment.....

Current refurbishment is too soon to be rewiring Mk3 SLE/SLEPs for Class 43 compatibility. No spare Class 43s yet.

A more workable option at the moment would, I think, be to hire-in Class 67s or 68s to haul the Sleepers. I can't imagine the costs of doing that would be much greater than the cost of constant patching up of the bag of bits that are the Class 57s.

Indeed, but I must claim to be even more well rounded than the honourable member, I have found the sleeping berths a bit tight since I am tall AND well rounded :)

Isn't on-train heating supply a reason for the 57s?

Yes, as bobm said above:
Class 43 can provide electricity (for on-train heating and lights) to IC125s, but not general Mrk3 coaches. I'm not sure on the next bit, but I think the IC125 uses 3-phase electricity, whereas general Mrk3 (and Mrk2s, Mrk4s and electricly-heated Mrk1s) stock is single-phase, I think.

Not just the cost of patching up the 57s, they also seem to be leasing at least two locos from DRS in addition to their original 4 57s. Presumably if the 68s are sufficiently reliable they would only need to lease 4 locos, cheaper than leasing 6. Not sure how reliable 67s are though, the Chiltern silver trains are bottom of the Intercity table in the 'Golden Spanner' contest this year, perhaps that's why Chiltern are switching to 68s.

67s aren't very reliable, hence Chiltern finding the extra cost vs reliability an acceptable case for 68s. DRS has additional 68s on order for hiring out, but all those here in UK are already spoken for, so it'll be a while yet

There's a total of 15 here with 10 more to come.  Chiltern has five of them from DRS (plus another two fitted with equipment to allow them to be used if needed), but are the other 10 really all unavailable if FGW wanted to explore the possibility of using them with DRS?

I believe they are all spoken for currently, yes

Split a full HST set for MK3's and place said MK3's in HST 2+7 Sets making them 2+8

Then adapt the HSTs to work with Locomotives such as the Class 57 or 67 for push-pull?

Yes a stupid Idea I know... But I recall that Class 91s ran with Class 43s on the trailing end when the supply of Class 82 DVT Units were less than limited.

Or stick another Class 57 on the end of both sets? That way it saves having to drag sets around or needing to run around the Carriages at the destination ends - neither of which you can do at Paddington and Penzance...

Tonight's down sleeper is going via Yeovil, not calling at Taunton, due to a broken rail near Whiteball Tunnel.

Passengers to and from Taunton will be offered taxis to/from Exeter St Davids.

The latest issue of RAIL has an article which suggests Serco are considering using Class 47s for the Caledonian Sleeper when they take over in April.  They would be used for the Highland sleeper portions from Edinburgh to Aberdeen, Fort William and Inverness.  On the same page is a photo of the back to back HSTs hauling the Night Riviera on the 15th December when the hired in 57310 failed.

For the sake of completeness, I should add that yesterday's up sleeper failed at Plymouth last night. All customers were subsequently HST'd up to London where it arrived more or less on time after being nearly 2 hours late leaving Plymouth.

Also meant the 05:09 Plymouth to London Paddington was cancelled as the set was used to replace the sleeper.

Also adding that tonight's down sleeper will be powered by 2 HST powercars as far as Plymouth with 57603 left to struggle on to Penzance.

It's good that, by hook or by crook, FGW are doing all they can to keep the Sleepers running, but the situation with the poor reliability of the 57s can't go on. Delays, HST substitutions, and cancellations will start affecting the decisions of regular users as to whether the Sleeper is a viable option.

I must admit that thought did cross my mind.  30 minutes at Plymouth on New Years Day is one thing, waiting an extra hour while the train struggles through Cornwall would have given me second thoughts.

Bin the sleeper (or at least suspend it until some way can be found of making it reliable) and run an early service from Paddington to the Westcountry instead, leaving around 0500 and reaching Exeter/Plymouth (0730/0830) at a sensible time to do a day's business, could even be run as a Pullman and marketed as a business traveller train - that's what Devon/Cornwall desperately needs.....not a sleeper service that chucks you out at Plymouth at 0515, that's worse than useless, and with the current level of reliability I can't see anyone trusting it much, to say nothing of all the people that get messed around by the cancellations the next morning when it falls over.

... and in the other direction?

0509,0530,0553 from Plymouth get into Paddington between 0900-1000

0505 from Penzance gets in 1002

Up Sleeper does give folk the chance to be at a desk by 9am though.

TG, I understand the point, but it's not just at the desk for 0900 in London.  Many people go straight to the HEX service, as they have flights.  Not everyone wants to (or can) leave the SW late afternoon the day before to bed in a hotel at Heathrow for an early flight.

If you can sleep on the sleeper, than you're going to feel better than getting up at 0400 for your early trains.

I personally don't understand why the down sleeper doesn't keep the Monday times, arriving for 0900 in PZ, and let the XC service run the 05:43 departure.  If anyone desperately needs to be in Cornwall that early, they can do the connection to the XC at Plymouth.  A 06:28 departure from Plymouth is a little more sociable to those having a day there too.

Glad to see an uneventful night last night though in both directions!

I don't think there are supposed to be any 2+7 IC125 sets anymore.

With the 91s, I don't think it was just the DVTs missing, the rest of the Mrk4 coaches were missing too and the train was basicaly an IC125 with a 91 in place of one of the two 43s. As for push-pull, why has nobody made a subclass of diesel locos capable of working with any one of the many stored DVTs since that capability was removed from the buffer-fitted 43s? It would save having two locos on the summer extra LHCS in East Anglia, which contains a DVT. With Chiltern and ATW, they have had to modify both the loco and DVT, why not just modify the loco and be able to use any DVT?

Demand in Cornwall is quite high on the XC service after the sleeper as it forms a early commuter service to Truro.

For anyone who says Cornwall and Devon can do without a sleeper train must use it and see what a benefit it brings to the region.

I would imagine more frequent, reliable services would bring much more of a benefit...I cannot imagine the benefit to Plymouth (for example) that a service arriving at 0515 in the morning brings, as against one arriving 3 hours later.

I'd be interested to know what the loading of the down sleeper is like, outside of tourist periods?

It can often run full on the Monday where it runs later than the rest of the week due to the combination of overnighters and commuters as well as a reduced capacity over the XC which copes much better during the week.

Not sure if it already exists but could an easement could be put in place that allows sleepy Plymothians to alight further down i.e. Par or Bodmin Parkway which could put their arrival time in Plymouth at 0741 instead. Such an easement is already in place for those going to Exeter and Taunton.

Edited to add: Also note that although the sleeper does arrive in Plymouth at 0515, it doesn't leave for another half an hour.

Meanwhile, just to note, the sleeper coach abandoned in the early hours of the 2nd January remains in the sidings just to the east of Swindon station.

Despite a portable lamp being attached to the buffer beam, the on board red lamps still seem to be functioning.

I wondered if that was the one! Went past it yesterday on the Merchant Venturer.

Used the sleeper on a quite regular basis from 2010-13 in the London- Exeter down direction, departing Paddington just before midnight.

Always a very pleasant experience, and always very busy on the various Wednesday and Friday nights that I travelled. Friendly staff deserve a mention, too. Used to love having a nightcap in the buffet car as envious late night commuters scurried past to get their late night. One memorable night we ran parallel to a Thames Turbo for a while, should have seen their faces as I raised my G&T in salute, from the light of my table lamp...

But it's been a good while since the ageing 47s were tarted up into 57s, and frankly they don't seem up to the task nowadays. Hotel chains go to great lengths to ensure their passengers get a good night's sleep - including budget chains - and sleeper passengers being made to sit on HSTs is unforgivable. Something needs to be done.

I just saw a sleeper coach on a low loader heading from the direction of Swindon station and going north onto the A419 at Stratton (east of Swindon). I would assume that's the same coach. No idea where it might be heading, going North from there; clearly not to OOC or Laira.

Interesting. There was a light loco move to and from Swindon from Old Oak on Thursday afternoon which I assumed was connected with the coach. Obviously not.

I suppose it's possible they went North on the A419/A417 and picked up the M5 at Gloucester, then heading South to Laira or Longrock but that makes little sense: it would be far easier to get onto the M4 at J15 and then head West. The A417 involves the 'Missing Link' single-carriageway section at Birdlip and I'm sure the duty AbLoad officer at Gloucestershire Police would much rather not have a slow-moving Mk3 sleeper coach cluttering that up! I would assume the final destination was a workshop somewhere in the Midlands?

Bit of a change for the Down sleeper last night.  Rather than being rescued it was called in to help out after the 23:30 London Paddington to Cardiff service (via Bristol Temple Meads) failed at Slough.

The sleeper called additionally at Slough, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads, where coaches were provided onwards toward Cardiff.

It then suffered an air problem in Devon but was only 13 late into Penzance.

That'll probably be the Radon gas ...  :P

For any one who is interested I think 57312 will be on the up sleeper tomorrow correct me if I'm wrong but it will be nice to get pictures of a different loco on the sleeper

It was on the down last night. One of my Flickr contacts pictured it at Plymouth this morning.

Well we'll not often a class 57 comes to the rescue normally needs rescuing itself. but a class 66 on freight failed between par and lostwithiel this afternoon so the 57 from tonight's up sleeper has gone to help! Hmm I wonder will the up sleeper be on time tonight?

I think the plan is for the FGW 57 to push or pull the freight into Par and clear of the mainline.

A 66 is on its way from Westbury to take the train forward.

I wonder if they are both 1Z99.

686N 1629 Goonbarrow Jn to Fowey Dock Carne Point took 1 hour 39 from Par to Lostwithiel and terminated at Lostwithiel. Is that the failed freight service?
No other services in RTT.
1A35 is 50 late. 1C86 lost 80 minutes around Westbury. Guessing that needed rescuing as well?

Edit*** 1C86 went from Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads then down to Taunton causing the delay.

Looks like 1C86 1506 Pad to Pnz has hit both of the failed trains on its journey today. Doh!  ::)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20330/2015/01/26/advanced

Yes a second freight failed on the main line between the junctions for Westbury and Frome.

And 1C87 (the 16:06 Pad to Pnz) is now running ahead of it.  Might have been better to wait at Westbury than go round via Bristol, but hindsight is a marvellous thing!

Not only hindsight. You can't keep a train at Westbury indefinitely - there are only three platforms and it might then lead to cancellations because of "congestion caused by earlier delays"  ;)

Looking at rtt I reckon the sleeper will be ten fifteen minuets late leaving penzance as the 57 ain't due back from st blazey until 2150

Spot on!

Nice to see journey check giving and explanation as why it will be running late which is clear and understandable and to the point. Not like this 'train will be starting late due to an earlier broken down train'. Is it me or is journey check explaining problems better now?

Very pessimistic ... I think it may pick up a minute or two there ...

Lets wait and see. It's got leave pz first!!

Did the depot 08 get an outing with the coaches this evening? From RTT it appears the loco went straight to penzance station, so assuming the coaches were there waiting?

Realtimetrains is now showing expected arrival time at paddington as 05:09.

For the record, arrived 05:19 - which is exactly as scheduled in the working timetable.

...........just out of interest, why was a FGW loco used to move a failed freight train, thus jeopardising/delaying passenger services?

Surely freight operators are obliged to have some sort of "rescue" arrangement in place when this happens? What would have happened if the Class 57 had failed as a result? (they often seem to fail without any "help" of this kind!!!)

Pragmatic response I would suggest.  With no other loco nearby it was in FGW's interests to shift the freight as their services were being heavily delayed.

The alternative would have been to sit back, do nothing and wait for the freight to moved by a more distant loco and pick up compensation to pass onto their delayed customers.

I believe a loco was sent from Westbury - although there was a broken down freight in Westbury area too, so not sure if that slowed the freight company response or not. For the Par issue, I believe it was just a case of our loco was the quickest way of getting the freight off of the main line so normal running could be introduced.

It helpfully works both ways, as a 66 has been summoned to rescue the sleeper in the past.  :o

I would be surprised if DBS (the freight company) aren't invoiced by FGW for the use of the locomotive to rescue the freight train.  DBS would have obviously agreed to it beforehand.

There's a video on YouTube if anyone is that interested!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ems9LeMTgE

Regardless of the loco situation, 1C86 is also worked by the sleeper driver/guard from Exeter to PZ, so a delay to this service could also delay the sleeper.

The sleeper failed again tonight on the up got as far as long rock according to journey check. Think it's now normall hst left at 23.30 don't know much more than that but clearly did not get far at all. The only good thing I suppose is that they were not very far from assistance!!

It's being run as a HST.

I can only assume the Sleeper stock was shunted back to Penzance by Long Rock's Class 08 shunter, the punters were turfed out, and the HST that arrived at Penzance from Paddington (1657 ex PAD) at 2321 has been pressed into service. That would explain the 135 minute delay in starting the (not now a) Sleeper from Penzance.

Does now mean that it's likely that either the 0505 or 0541 from Penzance to Paddington on Monday morning will be cancelled, as Long Rock has only two of it's usual three HSTs who bed down for the night.

Yea looks like they may have to toss a coin in the morning and the sleeper stock will need moving as well could be interesting tomorrow as to what plan they come up with

There will doubtless be an ECS move of Sleeper stock sometime during the day.

Neither in the end. The 07:41 is replaced by a three car unit sent from Exeter running from Truro to Bristol Temple Meads where an HST will take over.

Is it three or four HST sets that overnight at Penzance/Long Rock?  There is also the 06:45 to London Paddington to cover.

21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05
This train has been delayed from Penzance by 135 minutes and is being further delayed at Long Rock.
This is due to a train fault.

....but it was only 28 late by the time it reached London Paddington

8 hours overnight on an HST.......great start to the working week for some!   :(

I can see the point you are making, but slightly overstated.  The HST to form the service did not arrive in Penzance until 23:21 and then left at 23:30 after passengers and crew had been transferred from the sleeper coaches.  I make that six hours.

FGW have said tickets for last night will be valid on the sleeper tonight for those who can delay their plans, which I expect is not many. 

At least a service was run.  I think in many cases where the Caledonian service has problems it is either cancelled outright and you need to find a hotel or a very long journey on a coach is provided.

There were a lot of very unhappy people stranded for hours in the freezing cold at intermediate stations. I'm not sure the vagaries of the Caledonian service will be of interest or consolation to them. The wider impact of the unreliability of this service to the Business community and economy in the Southwest should not be underestimated.

While I agree with your closing comment, you cannot speak as a matter of fact for people you did not see or speak to.  Most berth reservations are at stations with staff and a waiting room, and I would expect those at the small stations either made their way to somewhere like Truro or Plymouth, or gave up and went home.  Not ideal granted.

For the record, the 57 loco was once again the issue.

The replacement HST would have made it RT in Paddington, but was delayed a further 30 minutes in the Newton Abbot area where an engineering possession had to be temporarily handed back for 1A40 to pass through.

.........may not have seen them or spoken to them in person, but I read the comments on FGW's Twitter feed from people stranded in the manner I alluded to, which seems to bear it out.

As an occasional user of the Caledonian (lowland) sleeper, one of the big negatives is the wait until awfully late in the evening for the service to board at Glasgow / Edinburgh after a day's work and an early evening meal. I can't think what would be much more off-putting than a further 2 hours to wait, even if time was made up on the way.

........with the easy availability of flights to/from Glasgow and Edinburgh from all London airports I can't imagine ever being able to justify using the Sleeper for that trip if on business!!!

The Night Rivera (if running!) does bridge the overnight gap in the absence of flights from Devon/Cornwall and gets you into London ready for a day's work (again with the caveat that it's running to plan and you can get a decent kip en route!)

I can't see any ECS stock movement on RTT. I am assuming there was one as otherwise tonights down will be a non starter.

**edit it left long rock at 1027, it needed another loco with it reaching OOC at 1704. I believe 57312 is the dead loco, and was pulled back to OOC dead**

I'm wondering if the rescue loco had worked the down, trying to find if there was another movement for a loco.

RTT will only show trains which have been pre-loaded into the system, so short notice  VSTP trains may not have even been timed.      The loco to work the "Demic" loco and stock up to OOC came down attached to 1C99 last night.

All explained (with photos) here: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/headlines---latest-reports-and-photographs

Does any one know what's wrong with the failed loco was it a brake problem or did the engine say I don't want to do this tonight and pack up! Will it be a quick fix or long term project. And who will foot the bill FGW or DRS as it is one of there locos

It's five, the 05.05, 05.41, 06.45, 07.41 and 08.44 are all booked off Longrock. There's also a 10.00 but that comes off the 07.02 Plymouth.

I'm a bit surprised that it was decided to wait around two hours and then rapidly turn around the HST off the 16.57 Pad - PZ (which presumably needed cleaning etc). On Sunday evenings there's already 3 HSTs out at Longrock before the sleeper is even due to leave, the first of which arrives at Longrock around 6pm. (The 11.57,12.57 & 14.57 Pad-PZ)  :o

Down Sleeper failed last night (Tues 02/02/2015) at Trowbridge. Rescued by Up Sleeper to Westbury, with initial plan to send a HST from Bristol for onward travel from Westbury.

Service got going again though and is running some 1^ hours late. Calls at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway and Lostwithiel are being skipped.

I've just got the 0713 from Redruth, down sleepers currently showing 1 hr 6 late on the boards

(posted from fgw WiFi, it is rather quick, I am impressed)

.....in some ways a positive thing if you were getting off the sleeper at Plymouth, being woken up and turfed off at 0730-ish a great deal more civilised than the usual 0530! At least there'll be a chance of getting breakfast somewhere! (Cap'n Jaspers should be open by now!!!)  :)

Cap'n jaspers now that's the best idea so far this morning!!

Not sure whether the pax had already been woken at Westbury and transferred to a HST. Anyone know for definite what ran from Westbury onward?

According to the Twitter account of ModelRailwayCorp it was replaced by an HST formed of 43159 / OC40 / 43137.

https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1)

Another set of bleary eyed Sleeper passengers then.

The reliability of the service really is at an unacceptably poor level. I'm just surprised it's not made the media yet.

This 'adds up' - one of the early Bristol to Paddington HST services this morning was cancelled "due to train fault". Me thinks train fault on the sleeper with the HST ending up at the other end of the line!

It'll make the media when enough people stop using it due to its unreliability to the extent that it becomes unviable to continue the service and it stops..........who knows, maybe that wouldn't upset FGW too much?

It's beginning to seem that it's more trouble than its worth, especially when the frequent switching of units results in the cancellation of peak trains the following morning (particularly those from Penzance/Plymouth to Paddington), which inconveniences far more people than the removal of the Sleeper.

Suggests that no journalists based in Plymouth or Cornwall ever use the sleeper.

Yes, the 0712 (0800 off BRI) from Taunton was the unlucky one.