Have your say on a proposed London Overground station at Old Oak

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground/old-oak-common/consult_view

Precis:

The Government has announced proposals for a new High Speed 2 (HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))), National Rail and Crossrail station at Old Oak by 2026, potentially making it one of the best connected railway stations in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

However, the current plans do not include a connection to the London Overground services that currently pass through the area. Both the Mayor and Transport for London (TfL^» (Transport for London - about)) consider this is a missed opportunity to integrate HS2 and Crossrail with the local transport network, improving connectivity and supporting further economic growth of the area.

We are looking for your views on the principle of creating a new London Overground station at Old Oak and on three options to connect it with the HS2, National Rail and Crossrail station.  All three options are feasible, but offer different levels of passenger benefits and local impacts.

Transport for London have assessed various options for the Overground station at Old Oak Common and have narrowed them down to three possibilities:

Option A: ^ a new viaduct running to the north of Wormwood Scrubs, allowing WLL trains to join the NLL^▸ (North London line), just south of Acton Wells Junction, with a new station on the NLL adjacent to Old Oak Common Lane.


Option B: WLL trains would use the existing South West Goods lines to a new station on the NLL adjacent to Old Oak Common Lane, where they would reverse and use the NLL to continue to Willesden Junction.


Option C: two separate stations, one on the NLL adjacent to Old Oak Common Lane, and another on the WLL adjacent to Hythe Road with pedestrian links to OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) HS2 station.


(The links to the options above will load .pdf images of detailed maps for the proposed layouts)

The full Options Assessment Report from Transport for London can be read at the following link:
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground/old-oak-common/user_uploads/options-assessment-report-v1.0.pdf

[Ingleborough]

To put some perspective on this plan. It's anticipated this station will have to handle 250,000 passengers a day.
That would put it up amongst the top 20 busiest stations in Europe, and very near the top of the table in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

[grahame]

Welcome to the forum, Ingleborough ... would you be named after a Peak in the lake district, or a peak on the Midland main line? 

[Brucey]

I assume these plans will be accompanied by lengthened trains during the busiest times (not just during rush hours)?

Services on both the Clapham and Richmond branches are typically completely full during the rush hours, weekends, etc.

[paul7575]

I assume these plans will be accompanied by lengthened trains during the busiest times (not just during rush hours)?

Services on both the Clapham and Richmond branches are typically completely full during the rush hours, weekends, etc.

LO's current intentions seem to be just to extend the whole fleet from 4 car to 5 car (underway now); with platforms being adjusted to 5 car length if/where needed.  I don't think I've ever seen any mention of lengthening trains in the peaks beyond that.

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

I think that 6-car provision is being provided where possible during the 5-car extension works, so perhaps that'll be in the offing in a few years.

[paul7575]

I think that 6-car provision is being provided where possible during the 5-car extension works, so perhaps that'll be in the offing in a few years.

Yes, I've read that as well, but lengthening the LO trains to 6 cars (to utilise a future 6 car infrastructure) also limits the possibility of individual peak services ever being increased beyond the normal length.

[John R]

Isn't that the case with 5 car sets? (i.e., 10 cars is way above what could be achieved. ) I believe there are a couple of stations that are a real problem (Canada Water, maybe?) above 5 cars that would be a constraint on the eastern side of the network.

[Ingleborough]

In answer to the question above, the locomotive D7 Ingleborough, which I first saw 45 years ago on 3rd October 1969 as it passed through Peterborough on a coal train from Toton to Whitemoor.

[eightf48544]

I am rather worried that as far as i can see non of the propsals show the link from Acton to Acton Wells. This is the major link off the FGWL mainline for both North South and east London and beyond It carries heavy freight traffic, containers to and from  East Coast ports and stone traffic for various outer London terminals. Plus passenger trains to Euston when WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) is  blocked and interegional excursions/specials. And when electrified it would enable Gatwick Heathrows!

Also the OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) to Greenford line is not shown.  I consider that it should be electrified at least to Greenford plus the  Loop should be used to enable some Crossrail trains currently planned to terminate at Eastbourne Terrace to terminate at West Ealing with an interchange station at North Acton.

[Chris125]

I am rather worried that as far as i can see non of the propsals show the link from Acton to Acton Wells. This is the major link off the FGWL mainline for both North South and east London and beyond It carries heavy freight traffic, containers to and from  East Coast ports and stone traffic for various outer London terminals. Plus passenger trains to Euston when WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) is  blocked and interegional excursions/specials. And when electrified it would enable Gatwick Heathrows!

Also the OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) to Greenford line is not shown.  I consider that it should be electrified at least to Greenford plus the  Loop should be used to enable some Crossrail trains currently planned to terminate at Eastbourne Terrace to terminate at West Ealing with an interchange station at North Acton.

The diagrams are simplified for clarity, if you look at the documents on the consultation page there are more detailed maps showing other rail infrastructure such as the Dudding Hill Line.

The OOC-Greenford line is not relevant to this proposal but will be affected by the Crossrail link to the WCML, for which a separate consultation is expected shortly.

Chris

[eightf48544]

Agreed Dudding Hill line is shown but not Acton to Acton Wells. I would also suggest that OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) to Greenford is highly relevant to rail infrastructure in the area. As for the Crossrail link to the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) doesn't it go right across the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) station? Will it have to have an OOC station.

I would have thought that the two schemes should be considered together.

From the reading these schemes seem to largely passenger orientated possibly at the expense of rail freight. The Greenford OOC was proposed for the start of a tunnel to take railfreight to the channel tunnel coming from teh Midlands via the ex GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) and Chiltern line. Don't forget there is also the more or less extant track bed of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) link from North Acton to the West London Line running parallel with the Central line..

[paul7575]

Agreed Dudding Hill line is shown but not Acton to Acton Wells. I would also suggest that OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) to Greenford is highly relevant to rail infrastructure in the area. As for the Crossrail link to the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) doesn't it go right across the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) station? Will it have to have an OOC station.

I would have thought that the two schemes should be considered together.

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have decided to task HS2 Ltd with an amendment to the Hybrid Bill to build the WCML link.   TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s proposal for LO changes is a completely separate matter, which will be the root cause of the drawings not including each other's details.

There's a detailed drawing on HS2's website for the WCML link:

http://assets.hs2.org.uk/sites/default/files/event_speakers/LWM-HS2-EN-MAP-010-000002-P06.pdf

The Crossrail link does not go over the HS2 station, and the Acton freight line is shown on their drawing.   Comments elsewhere suggest with the level of detail shown, HS2 Ltd are quite settled on the basic route of the link.

Also an information leaflet:

http://assets.hs2.org.uk/sites/default/files/event_speakers/CS201_OOC%20event%20factsheet%20with%20images%20V5.pdf

Paul

[mfpa]

Last time I was in London, my brother was telling me there was word of the coach station possibly being relocated from Victoria to Old Oak Common.

[Tim]

Last time I was in London, my brother was telling me there was word of the coach station possibly being relocated from Victoria to Old Oak Common.

It has been mooted http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/property-news/new-homes/victorias-%C2%A32-billion-transformation-its-coach-station-becomes-cultural?ito=1610&utm_source=eshomesandproperty&utm_medium=email21082013

personally a new coach station at Old Oak might be beneficial but closing the one in Victoria in order to satisfy property developers seems rather short sighted.