Driving licences and tests - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

An engaging (and stats-rich) read around the issue of ... well, the article does touch on driving tests too. (Hosted on Substack and hopefully available to read without a subscription, you may need to dismiss a dialogue box that appears...)

Mark

https://notes.archie-hall.com/p/reflections-on-britains-triage-ward

Thinking about that piece, it makes some sharp observations that apply more widely than the examples it gives. The way that particularly since Covid, but this is something that didn't start with Covid, something that's high priority or high profile is often still handled well and appropriately, it's the lower priority stuff that's often started to drift - and it's that which impacts people's day-to-day living and which gives people the impression that their lives are awry - which leads to consequences, not least in politics.

Dragging this on topic, thinking of the railway in the west, while its true that the core, the Great Western Main Line itself is more than a little glass-backed, some of the more minor routes, including the ones that have a sparse service, when it comes to their patterns of service and resilience of their services... well, it's holding back the contribution that they can make to people's lives.

Mark

[Sixty3Closure]

Why is it, and why ever was it, possible for people and bots to buy-up driving tests slots for resale?

The bots is because the government developers can't respond quickly enough to close the exploits in the web page. As soon as they close off one another dozen scripts will appear. The block booking is also supposed to be closed off but again its probably profitable enough to develop workarounds. And unless its changed its will be a central team responsible for all the DVLA^▸ (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency)/SA rather than a gov.uk developer sat there responding to bots and exploits.

Having just recently sat my test and discussed this with my instructor I was quite surprised at how poorly paid examiners were. Apparently several of the instructors in my area were approached about becoming examiners and all laughed at the idea. Apart from a significant pay cut as mentioned in one of the articles above there was also an increase in the number of tests you had to oversee a few years ago and reduction in the time allowed for paperwork which caused a lot of resentment and stress. From memory it was an increase from 6 to 7 tests a day which if you allow each test being 45-50 mins including actually getting to the car itself and the 'chat' at the end doesn't leave long for typing it all up never mind destressing or taking a break. Its also a lot less flexible and as my instructor said if he doesn't like someone he can turn down the work.

I got chatting to my examiner on my test who commented on how nice it was to be able to have a chat with someone his own age (50+) and talked about why he was thinking of changing careers. When I mentioned I'd worked for the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) World Service there were loads of questions and I was just trying to think of a polite way of saying 'be quiet I'm trying to drive'.

I'm not sure I could cope with sitting in the car with mainly teenagers all day and trusting their driving.

[Chris from Nailsea]

I'm not sure I could cope with sitting in the car with mainly teenagers all day and trusting their driving.

You'll soon be sitting in the train with teenagers driving, apparently. 

[TonyK]

I'm not sure I could cope with sitting in the car with mainly teenagers all day and trusting their driving.

You'll soon be sitting in the train with teenagers driving, apparently. 

I've been on more than one airliner flown by a teenager, including one where the commanding pilot told us (after a perfect landing at Bristol) that this had been the young man's first time flying the entire journey from engine start to engine stop at the other end.

[Surrey 455]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Jodie Johnston, a driving instructor in Exeter, likens booking a test to the infamous annual scramble to buy tickets for Glastonbury Festival - and says some learners in London, where demand can be even higher, are travelling 200 miles to take their tests in Devon. "It's easier to pass a test than book a test at the moment," adds Ali Slade, a driving instructor in Farnham.

My niece in Surrey found it quicker to get a test in Portsmouth. Apparently a few of her school friends have done the same.

[rogerpatenall]

Just reading this from the start.
My first visit to India in 2004 I was met at the airport with a car from our office. Mid way into Chennai I asked the driver whether they drove on the left or the right (it certainly wasn't obvious to me). He said "yes".
I asked him if he knew what the white lines were for. "Just some nonsense the British left in 1947, he said.
Then, nor in all my subsequent visits, did I have the courage nor skill to get behind the wheel of a car.

[paul7575]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Jodie Johnston, a driving instructor in Exeter, likens booking a test to the infamous annual scramble to buy tickets for Glastonbury Festival - and says some learners in London, where demand can be even higher, are travelling 200 miles to take their tests in Devon. "It's easier to pass a test than book a test at the moment," adds Ali Slade, a driving instructor in Farnham.

My niece in Surrey found it quicker to get a test in Portsmouth. Apparently a few of her school friends have done the same.

In my teens when learning, people from Newcastle would head 35 miles up the road to Alnwick for their test.  They got the same licence, but there were no traffic lights or roundabouts to navigate.

My cousin emigrated to the USA in the 80s before taking her first test somewhere in the deep south. It consisted of something like driving a loop around a residential block and then reversing successfully into a side road. She reckoned it was far easier than a British cycling proficiency test…

[TonyK]

Just reading this from the start.
My first visit to India in 2004 I was met at the airport with a car from our office. Mid way into Chennai I asked the driver whether they drove on the left or the right (it certainly wasn't obvious to me). He said "yes".
I asked him if he knew what the white lines were for. "Just some nonsense the British left in 1947, he said.
Then, nor in all my subsequent visits, did I have the courage nor skill to get behind the wheel of a car.

Having been a passenger in India, I can't imagine how I could ever be a driver. Cars, trucks, motorbikes with a family of five on board, all turned onto the main road from the left without slowing, at places where in England there would be traffic lights or a roundabout. It scared my wife. I think though that nobody would ever get anywhere if they didn't drive like that.

In my teens when learning, people from Newcastle would head 35 miles up the road to Alnwick for their test.  They got the same licence, but there were no traffic lights or roundabouts to navigate.

My cousin emigrated to the USA in the 80s before taking her first test somewhere in the deep south. It consisted of something like driving a loop around a residential block and then reversing successfully into a side road. She reckoned it was far easier than a British cycling proficiency test…

Minehead was popular at one time, especially on Butlins changeover days. I don't think they do tests there any more.

On the matter of bots and tests, is it beyond the wit of man to amend the booking system to start with "Enter your driver number here" then allow changes only via DVSA. A system could be added to allow registered driving schools, such as those doing intensive courses, to book separately, but that would be the answer, wouldn't it?

[stuving]

On the matter of bots and tests, is it beyond the wit of man to amend the booking system to start with "Enter your driver number here" then allow changes only via DVSA. A system could be added to allow registered driving schools, such as those doing intensive courses, to book separately, but that would be the answer, wouldn't it?

DVSA have started a consultation about changes similar to those. The consultation started on 28 May 2025 and will close at 11:59pm on 23 July 2025. There's an online form in the explanation page for the consulation.

[Chris from Nailsea]

An update, from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

'Impossible' to get driving tests, say learners

Learner drivers in the West say they are resorting to using expensive cancellation websites in a desperate attempt to book their tests.

With the official routes for booking tests oversubscribed, the BBC has been told that companies are block-booking appointments and selling them on to people unable to find a spot.

Daisy Bodkin, 24, from Cheltenham, said it was "impossible" to get a test through the official Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) website, and she and many of her peers had turned to the private apps as a last resort.

Loveday Ryder, DVSA chief executive, said the organisation had been working "tirelessly" to address the issues and reduce driving test waiting times.

These unofficial companies will use the applicants' driving licence number to reserve a bulk amount of test appointments until they can resell them at a higher price. The license number will then be changed to match the buyers'.

Using these sites is what allows automated bots to exploit the driving test booking service, by getting users to provide the necessary details the companies need to hold the slots. This leaves those who are ready to take their test struggling to find one at a date and time of their choice.

Nearly 27,000 people responded to a call for evidence from the DVSA between December and February. Of those, 93.1% said they had struggled with a lack of suitable test appointment slots.

Ms Bodkin, who recently finished university and works as a freelance journalist for the BBC, said she had booked a test in October 2024 for March 2025, but had failed. "I waited until I felt like I was ready to book a test, which I think was probably not the right thing to do - I should have booked it ages ago," she said.

With the end of her university in sight she put rebooking her test "on the back burner", only to find later that there were no tests available through the DVSA in Cheltenham or Gloucester until 2026. "Everyone is recommending the apps, which I know is the thing that is causing all the issues, but also I don't really want to be left behind when everyone is doing it," she added.

With booking tests on the DVSA website "impossible", she said, her and her peers have been left "constantly checking" the apps for cancellations. The pressure of knowing another test would likely be a long way off if she failed "definitely added" to her nerves, Ms Bodkin said.

Russell Marchant, who runs Bubble Driving School in Somerset, said many learners will cancel lessons to save money while they wait for their test. But this risks them forgetting what they have learnt and feeling unprepared when the time finally comes, he added. "As soon as someone starts in the car, as soon as they've passed their theory, we encourage them to try and get a test booked because we know it's going to be six months down the line."

Mr Merchant blames the Covid-19 pandemic for the mounting backlog, as postponed tests were continually added to the waiting list. "[there were] Four lockdowns and in all of them the DVSA were not testing," he explained. "That caused a lot of instructors to find other jobs. We had examiners leave the industry and not come back."

However, Ms Ryder told the BBC the DVSA had been "making good progress" on a plan to bring down waiting times, which was announced in December 2024. "[Our] goal is to make booking a driving test easier and fairer for everyone while preventing excessive charges for learner drivers," she added.