More Infill Electrification Announced

[whole diary]

[John R]

DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) announced today the sparking of Bolton to Wigan, and a wider study of electrification in the North of England. The route announced today appears to have come out of the blue, and given that it was a national announcement, I'm surprised that Newbury to Bedwyn wasn't included. However, the rail element of the announcement does appear to have had a somewhat northern bias. Well, exclusively northern to be precise.

[eightf48544]

Makes sense once you've got the teams rigging the wires they might as well just keep rolling.

Wigan Bolton makes sense it  gives another electrified route to the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) from Manchester are they going on to Southport?

[John R]

No (or at least, not yet.)

[onthecushions]

What prescient posters we all  are.

Much of this was discussed in "More North West Electrification", back in August.

The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) seem to be responding to our pearls of wisdom.

Seasons greetings,

OTC

[Electric train]

I'm surprised that Newbury to Bedwyn wasn't included.

I suspect it is still going through the costing exercises, likely to be tacked on to the Thames Valley and Cardiff Valleys electrification project or the So'hamton / Nuneaton scheme

[Btline]

It needs to go to Westbury, to end the ridiculous situation where trains terminate at Bedwyn in the middle of nowhere, meaning random HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) have to cover stops at Westbury and Pewsey.

[Trowres]

It needs to go to Westbury, to end the ridiculous situation where trains terminate at Bedwyn in the middle of nowhere, meaning random HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) have to cover stops at Westbury and Pewsey.

If everyone boarding trains at Westbury wanted to go to Paddington that would be fine.
In practice, many passengers are heading towards Devon and Cornwall (perhaps having arrived from the Southampton direction).

[Southern Stag]

Westbury is a very useful interchange. It is let down at the moment by the poor service to/from the South West, and often poor connections. If there were more frequent, reasonably timed connections at Westbury off trains to/from the South West it would be useful. Generally if you're already on a train from Plymouth or Penzance it will be quicker to go to Salisbury or Southampton via Westbury than on SWT^▸ (South West Trains) via Yeovil Junction, but the currently the SWT service is often more attractive as it offers a clockface timetable.

[TonyK]

I'm for Westbury being included, if only to give Bath to Westbury a chance of being included in the next phase.

[eightf48544]

In a logical progression one would hope to see Bedwyn - Westbury, Bristol -  Exeter/Plymouth, making Westbury - Bristol next as adiversion, folowed by Trowbridge - Chippenham (possible reinstatement of Bradford North curve) .

If Reading - Southampton is going to be 25Kv then Basingstoke - Salisbury/Exeter follows. Which leaves Southampton - Salisbury/ Westbury, Eastleigh - Romsey and Castle Cary - Yeovil. More problematic is Yeovil - Dorchester but it might as well be done to eliminate diesel traction

[Electric train]

With Network Rail currently sitting on ^32,000,000,000,000 of national debt ......... opps I mean that's what NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s borrowing is, DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) will not rush in and do all these schemes at once, Westbury to Bathampton and Thingley will be driven by the need of an alternative route for perturbation and fright.

We are looking at possibly 10 years or more for many of these to get done

[JayMac]

^32 Trillion?

[TonyK]

Westbury to Bathampton and Thingley will be driven by the need of an alternative route for perturbation and fright.

We are looking at possibly 10 years or more for many of these to get done

Indeed so, ET. The time for planning for any further infill in this current phase, and for what the HOOP train and team do when the current planned upgrades are complete is now. I would hope that a timetable of the next phase is worked out and published at least a year before the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and Northern projects are complete. It would be good to have a formal conduit for local transport authorities or rail users' organisations to be able to make representations as to what would be the best next step.

The ultimate aim should be for as much of the railway to be electrified as possible. Commuter services, such as the proposed Greater Bristol Metrorail, will always work most efficiently with electric trains. Also, we are just over a year away from the start of the South Yorkshire tram-train trial. That could turn out to be a game-changer in local rail transport, bringing commuters into city and town centres rather than just to stations. But it needs electrification to make it possible.

The worst thing that could happen would be for DafT to see the current projects to the end, then sell the HOOP kit to some other country, and stop there.

And you are right in saying that ^32 trillion is a fright. (I'm no George Osborne, but is that the correct number of zeros?)

[ellendune]

With Network Rail currently sitting on ^32,000,000,000,000 of national debt ......... opps I mean that's what NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s borrowing is, DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) will not rush in and do all these schemes at once, Westbury to Bathampton and Thingley will be driven by the need of an alternative route for perturbation and fright.

And you are right in saying that ^32 trillion is a fright. (I'm no George Osborne, but is that the correct number of zeros?)

Network Rail's Accounts say ^37,091 Million (i.e. ^37,091,000,000) of non current liabilities of which only ^29,000 million is borrowing.  I am not sure which components to add up to match your figure, but I am certain that you a factor of 1,000 to high! 

I would settle for ^32 billion (using the American definition).  A similar number to the estimated cost of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)). I believe the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) water industry has a similar debt. That compares to the 2008 UK government bank bailout of ^500 billion.

I leave others to judge how scarey these numbers are.

[TonyK]

Only ^37 billion then. Phew! That's a relief!