Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway

[whole diary]

[welshman]

Welsh Government draft budget for 2017-18 includes the following:

As part of our Budget agreement with Plaid Cymru, we are allocating £0.5m in 2017-18 to conduct feasibility studies into the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway line and establishing a national cycleway,

£300,000 is allocated to the rail study.  The aim is a 90 minute journey time.  Only 3% of the line has been built on.

One day, maybe...

[chrisr_75]

Welsh Government draft budget for 2017-18 includes the following:

As part of our Budget agreement with Plaid Cymru, we are allocating £0.5m in 2017-18 to conduct feasibility studies into the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway line and establishing a national cycleway,

£300,000 is allocated to the rail study.  The aim is a 90 minute journey time.  Only 3% of the line has been built on.

One day, maybe...

They're still continuing to ruminate over the M4 relief road, so a backwater railway line miles away from Cardiff has little chance I suspect!

[Noggin]

Welsh Government draft budget for 2017-18 includes the following:

As part of our Budget agreement with Plaid Cymru, we are allocating £0.5m in 2017-18 to conduct feasibility studies into the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway line and establishing a national cycleway,

£300,000 is allocated to the rail study.  The aim is a 90 minute journey time.  Only 3% of the line has been built on.

One day, maybe...

They're still continuing to ruminate over the M4 relief road, so a backwater railway line miles away from Cardiff has little chance I suspect!

A relatively cheap token gesture to placate the residents of west Wales I would suggest. The BCR^▸ (Benefit Cost Ratio) is unlikely to be great, though a roughly costed scheme could be useful bargaining chip with Westminster.




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[grahame]

Welsh Government draft budget for 2017-18 includes the following:

As part of our Budget agreement with Plaid Cymru, we are allocating £0.5m in 2017-18 to conduct feasibility studies into the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway line and establishing a national cycleway,

£300,000 is allocated to the rail study.  The aim is a 90 minute journey time.  Only 3% of the line has been built on.

One day, maybe...

Report at https://beta.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2018-10/aberystwyth-to-carmarthen-rail-reinstatement-feasibility-study.pdf

[SandTEngineer]

Interesting report.  Noted that they are proposing the PENRYN solution for passing loop stations.  However, my feeling is that trying to reinstate a railway after such a long time to modern environmental and safety requirements is a non-starter (just look at the number of road diversions and new overbridges required).  Nice try though

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, there's a long list of reopenings that should be ahead of this one in the queue.

[Red Squirrel]

Hmm...

...it is readily apparent that the scheme does not present a positive economic case.

As such the scheme is only likely to be progressed in regard to wider societal needs, and strategic aims, the consideration of which is beyond the scope of this study.

...or any other, at a guess.

A welsh friend once suggested that Cardiff was a rotten place to have as the capital of Wales because it is so difficult to get to from the north of the principality. Shrewsbury would have been much better, if only certain difficulties could have been overcome (like it being in England).

To get from Aberystwyth to Cardiff by train, via Shrewsbury, takes between four and four-and-a-half hours. The suggested running time for Aberystwyth - Carmarthen is 80 mins, so realistically (allowing for a change and 105 mins from Carmarthen to Cardiff) it should be possible to shave over an hour off that journey.

Ultimately, though, the population of Aberystwyth is broadly similar to Melksham's. This scheme is costed at around three quarters of a billion quid. Sadly I can't see how it would ever add up, unless they impose a one-off poll tax of £45,000 each on every man, woman and child on Aber...

[grahame]

A welsh friend once suggested that Cardiff was a rotten place to have as the capital of Wales because it is so difficult to get to from the north of the principality. Shrewsbury would have been much better, if only certain difficulties could have been overcome (like it being in England).

Logic might suggest the geographic centre of Wales - which is Carno.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-41241593

[Sixty3Closure]

Having lived in Aberystwyth and worked in Pembroke at the same time this would have been great rather than the very long bus trip with changes.

Apart from my personal requirements from 30 years ago though I think the proposal does raise some valid questions about North/South transport. As Red Squirrel mentions transport links to Cardiff are poor from the rest of Wales so there's maybe a political argument for it.

At the moment anyone from North and Central Wales has to take the very long route round. And while the population of Aberystwyth is low it is a university town with a lot of students from Cardiff/Swansea as well as tourist trade and the rail line could open it up a lot more.

I think the business case would need to be more about the wider social impact rather than the headline number of passengers.

[CyclingSid]

Is the next alternative the old Mid Wales line; Newtown. Llanidloes, Rhayader, Builth and Brecon. Bring them a bit closer to Cardiff. Apologies for English spellings, old brain can't manage the Welsh anymore (if it ever could!).

[grahame]

Looking though an old timetable (for posting in another thread), I note that at certain times of day the fastest way from London to Aberystwyth was via Carmarthen ...

[Oxonhutch]

And in 1963, you could more quickly access some of those destinations via Caernarvon ex the Premier Line

[Red Squirrel]

Scanning through the Plaid Cymru manifesto, as you do, I came across this under 'Welsh Green Jobs Revolution - Communications Infrastructure:

Projects could include...
Creating a trans-Wales railway: connecting Wales' coastal communities by reopening the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line together with a second phase linking our communities from north to south.

I'm more intrigued by the 'second phase'... could they really be thinking of going over the hills from Morfa Mawddach to Rhyl?

[grahame]

Scanning through the Plaid Cymru manifesto, as you do, I came across this under 'Welsh Green Jobs Revolution - Communications Infrastructure:

Projects could include...
Creating a trans-Wales railway: connecting Wales' coastal communities by reopening the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line together with a second phase linking our communities from north to south.

I'm more intrigued by the 'second phase'... could they really be thinking of going over the hills from Morfa Mawddach to Rhyl?

Curve to link lines at Minfforrd, regauging to just north of Tan y Grisiau, new curve to line through the existing tunnel to Roman Bridge,  I suspect  .  Joining up successful railways. Who could possibly object??

[Red Squirrel]

I'll buy you a crayon-sharpener for Xmas...