Decarbonisation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

In prison, possibly?  From Wikipedia:

In September 2024, Danish police apprehended Thunberg during a pro-Palestinian protest in Copenhagen against the Israel–Hamas war. Thunberg, along with five others, were detained after blocking the entrance to a building at the University of Copenhagen. Less than a week later, she was "carried out" from the library of Stockholm University by Stockholm police after she participated in an encampment inside the library. She characterized the police response as a "repression". Following those incidents, she was labeled 'antisemite of the week' by StopAntisemitism.

 

From Global warming to Global Intifada it would seem....

https://x.com/RadioGenoa/status/1837601214135239055?t=nL96FiL_HutaSZP0RBDrNQ&s=19

[TonyK]

All that's needed now is for China to follow suit, rather than commissioning tens of GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) of new coal power every year, as well as thousands of coal mines, sadly our contribution is less than a drop in the (warming) ocean in this context.........where's Greta these days?

If she went to China, she would be surprised at the efforts they are making to cut emissions there. There are currently 22 nuclear power stations under construction, with another 70 planned, so she might be irrationally alarmed too. Pressurised water seems to be the favoured design, meaning higher "burn-up" of fuel. They are not the sort you would use to make weapons, unlike our own former Magnox fleet. On renewables, and Greta would surely approve, China aimed to have 1,200 GW installed capacity of wind and solar plant by 2030, but hit the target this summer, 6 years early. The momentum will continue, apparently more out of energy security fears than concern for the planet. They are worried they may run out of coal. Chinese use of coal has increased greatly over the past two decades because it uses an awful lot more electricity in total, but the proportion generated by renewables and nuclear is rising, and quickly. We use less electricity than we did in contrast. More efficient gadgetry is one reason, but we have also in effect exported a lot of the more polluting industries, importing the products those industries used to make from places like, er, China.

I'm no apologist for China's political class or system, but I reckon in 10 years' time, Britain will have made some modest advances in clean energy, if not actually achieving our stated targets, and China will be way ahead. This won't stop some people still citing Chinese fossil fuel use as an excuse to do nothing in Britain and the USA. It isn't just China: India is speeding up deployment of new renewables and nuclear power projects, and the UAE is moving from 100% gas-powered electricity plants to 100% renewable and nuclear.

[broadgage]

I do not share the optimism expressed regarding chinese progress on climate change.
Here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), coal burning has been drastically reduced for many years and has very recently been eliminated for grid electricity production.

In china they are still building new coal fired power stations on a large scale, and presumably expect to run them for the economic lifetime of 20+ years.
New coal mines are also being opened, presumably in the expectation that coal demand will justify continued operation for many years to come.

[broadgage]

According to a recent U.N. report, the world is "wildly off track" regarding cutting carbon emissions.
Time for drastic actions to reduce fossil fuel use. Actual physical reductions, not trading or offsetting or exporting the fuel use.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8yyle2eq2o

[TonyK]

According to a recent U.N. report, the world is "wildly off track" regarding cutting carbon emissions.
Time for drastic actions to reduce fossil fuel use. Actual physical reductions, not trading or offsetting or exporting the fuel use.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8yyle2eq2o

That didn't come as a shock. On the matter of China, time alone will tell, but they are building lots of new nuclear and renewables.

[broadgage]

In more good news, it appears that the proposed 1.5 degrees limit to global warming will be broken this year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1dpnxnvv2go

[Red Squirrel]

Hitting 1.5  degrees is bad news, but not the end of the world. It’s not even the COP target; that is for global temperatures to exceed a 1.5 degree rise over a period of time, not just for a specific instance.

None of which in should in any way diminish our efforts to reduce emissions, of course.

[stuving]

EDF have said the Flamanville 3 EPR is going on line today. They even said they would hold a press conference this afternoon, to formally announce this, but I can find no reports of that. Indeed, I can't finds anything reporting the actual connection.

EDF are just not making a huge noise about it any more, perhaps for obvious reasons, and are still advancing step by baby step. Before today power had been worked up to 25%, and it will now run at various part load levels during an on-load test phase until it gets to 100% (1.6 GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about)) next summer, followed by a final full power test for a few months and a shutdown for checks. (I'm not sure what they can see to check with it fully fuelled, but still). So, still well within 20 years from starting the build ...

I did succeed in finding a site that offers power production data in real time for each station (or phase of). But while Flamanville 1 is off-line and 2 is working OK, 3 is "data not available".

[broadgage]

In the latest green initiative, HMG have proposed that all new homes built in the near future must incorporate heat pumps, and have  no connection to the gas network.
I expect considerable opposition to this policy. mainly due to running costs, with electricity at 25 pence a unit, the heat will cost about 8 pence up to 12 pence a unit. Gas would be cheaper.
Also there is no point whilst we are still burning gas for electricity production. Gas is burnt in a power station about 33%.
1OO units of gas= about 33 units of electricity. 33 units of electricity used in a heat pump will produce AT BEST 100 units of heat, 70 units of heat is arguably more realistic. And you have to build the gas power station and all the heat pumps in addition.

[infoman]

Lots of new build houses are built with the front door facing the main road,why?

Houses should be built, to face reasonable south,to take advantage of the very limit amount of sunshine we get in the U.K.

I have lived in a house where it had a south facing front room.

It was like a cooker during the summer months,but very pleasant during the winter months.

Moral of the reply its easier to try and reduce the heat in a room than it is to warm up a cold room   

[John D]

In the latest green initiative, HMG have proposed that all new homes built in the near future must incorporate heat pumps, and have  no connection to the gas network.
I expect considerable opposition to this policy. mainly due to running costs, with electricity at 25 pence a unit, the heat will cost about 8 pence up to 12 pence a unit. Gas would be cheaper.
Also there is no point whilst we are still burning gas for electricity production. Gas is burnt in a power station about 33%.
1OO units of gas= about 33 units of electricity. 33 units of electricity used in a heat pump will produce AT BEST 100 units of heat, 70 units of heat is arguably more realistic. And you have to build the gas power station and all the heat pumps in addition.

Actually heat pumps running at nearer 35c can be nearer 400% efficient.   But at these cooler temperatures the radiators need to be about 50% bigger.

Very old radiators (big cast iron type) operated at 80-95c
Modern steel radiators with gas boilers normally operate at 60-65c
Heat pump radiators operate at 35-50c

With gas the temperature differential (known as delta T) between input and output of radiator is usually around 12-20c.   But when coupled to a heat pump the flow restrictor (the valve on the output) needs to be set up properly to give a very accurate temperature differential between water input pipe and output pipe.

There was a recent Guy Martin TV^▸ (Thames Valley, or TeleVision, depending on context) programme, and it showed it can take 3 or 4 hours to set these properly across a whole house (and some fitters skimp), if not done properly then system is never fully efficient.   

Worth watching, they started with a bog standard 1930s semi and ended up bettering passive house standard.  If invest in insulation and do installations properly (not slapdash way some contractors work) then homes are virtually zero cost to heat. 

The heating cost is all upfront in better installation and insulation and doesn't cost much extra at build stage. With negligible or zero running costs (as shown in the TV programme)   It is a real eye opener compared to wasteful £26bn per year short term Government policy of spending billions every year giving running costs subsidies, energy price caps,  and winter payments to pensioners.  £26bn is £1000 per household per year, I personally would prefer the cash to upgrade the house if Government going to spend it anyway.

[Red Squirrel]

Would it confuse people if we were to drop the 'Aberthaw Power Station and' part of this thread's subject? It has now been six years since Aberthaw B closed, and the Turbine Hall was recently reduced to rubble...

[Chris from Nailsea]

Would it confuse people if we were to drop the 'Aberthaw Power Station and' part of this thread's subject? It has now been six years since Aberthaw B closed, and the Turbine Hall was recently reduced to rubble...

I can recognize a 'hint' from a squirrel, particularly when it is then 'liked' by broadgage, so I have made the appropriate updates.

CfN^▸ (Chris from Nailsea, an administrator on this forum). 

[grahame]

Would it confuse people if we were to drop the 'Aberthaw Power Station and' part of this thread's subject? It has now been six years since Aberthaw B closed, and the Turbine Hall was recently reduced to rubble...

The title was ... a credit to the longevity of the forum - outlives the power station ...

[JohnM]

There was a recent Guy Martin TV^▸ (Thames Valley, or TeleVision, depending on context) programme, and it showed it can take 3 or 4 hours to set these properly across a whole house (and some fitters skimp), if not done properly then system is never fully efficient.   

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martins-house-without-bills (I think)