Problems with Hitachi Intercity Express Trains - ongoing discussion since 2022

[whole diary]

[GBM]

Eh?

12:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:31
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:31 has been cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Additional Information
Customers making journeys within Devon and Somerset can travel with Cross Country's Edinburgh service as far as Taunton, which departs Plymouth at 14:27.

RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) at Penzance shows -
1A88 1215 Penzance to London Paddington   This service is cancelled.
This service was cancelled due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD).
AND
5A88 1215 Penzance to London Paddington
Empty Coaching Stock

A fault on the train, but it can run through to Paddington empty?

[grahame]

A fault on the train, but it can run through to Paddington empty?

Door fault?  Aircon intake fault - filling passenger cabin with diesel exhaust?

[Ralph Ayres]

A fault on the train, but it can run through to Paddington empty?

Door fault?  Aircon intake fault - filling passenger cabin with diesel exhaust?

Oh, happy memories of first generation DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) heating!

[Witham Bobby]

A fault on the train, but it can run through to Paddington empty?

Door fault?  Aircon intake fault - filling passenger cabin with diesel exhaust?

Oh, happy memories of first generation DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) heating!

That kerosene and sulphur smell that took your breath away!

[Mark A]

Sooo, first gen DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) heating... how'd it work?

Mark

[Witham Bobby]

AI generated answer:

First generation diesel multiple units (DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)) on British Railways were primarily fitted from new with Smiths combustion heaters, although a few were initially equipped with a similar type manufactured by Dragonair, which were later replaced by the Smiths version due to recurring problems.
 These heaters operated by burning fuel to generate heat, with the fan end of the heater being colour coded to indicate the unit's heat output; the warmer 50,000 BTU units, differing only in their fuel pumps, were typically fitted to vehicles carrying a single heater, such as Class 108s.
 Vehicles with two heaters generally required one of each hand, as the glow plug needed to be positioned on the side facing outwards for ease of access.
 The heaters were controlled through a system that included a flame detection thermostat and were integrated into the vehicle's control system.
 In 1977, British Rail determined that electrical faults and heater reliability could be improved by electrically insulating the heaters from the vehicle body, achieved by using rubber pads on mounting straps, rubber tubing in the fuel pipe, and insulating bushes made of GRP at both ends of the heater to prevent metal-to-metal contact.

AI-generated answer. Please verify critical facts.

It's AI generated, but corresponds well with my recollection of the heaters on the Park Royal sets we had on the WSR^▸ (West Somerset Railway - heritage line between Minehead and Bishops Lydeard) in the mid/late 1970s

[Witham Bobby]

Sooo, first gen DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) heating... how'd it work?

Mark

If you want to know more, the Railcar Society website has a useful WR guide to DMU heaters:

https://www.railcar.co.uk/documentation/

Scroll down the page a little to find it

A manual for the Smiths heaters can be found by scrolling a little further

Now I'm down a rabbit hole:

https://preserved.railcar.co.uk/documentation/tsu-89-99-heaters.pdf

[Edit: to add information]

[GBM]

A nice problem to have -
1A84 1020 Penzance to London Paddington
Left Penzance as 5 cars.
9 added at Plymouth!
Showing 14 cars to London!

[ChrisB]

Carting those 9 out of use I think

[Fourbee]

Reminded me of the 23-car lash up through Tonbridge :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jta4c9FMmCA

Is there a theoretical maximum of IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) that can be coupled together?

[stuving]

Reminded me of the 23-car lash up through Tonbridge :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jta4c9FMmCA

Is there a theoretical maximum of IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) that can be coupled together?

Yes, as specified for passenger operation it's two units and 312 m - twelve vehicles. Given the unit lengths in existence that means only trains that actually operate now.

For ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) and rescue modes, twice that is allowed. That means any train operating now can rescue any other, but it does not have to haul anything longer than it is. Thus some theoretical possibilities such as 5+5+5+9 might be allowed as ECS, but not for rescue (i.e. with passengers on board the rescued train).

[infoman]

Totally confused on this one,did 14 coaches actually make the journey from the west of England to Paddington?

If it did how was the train accommodated at Paddington?

[grahame]

Totally confused on this one,did 14 coaches actually make the journey from the west of England to Paddington?

If it did how was the train accommodated at Paddington?

I would be surprised if 14 carriages made Paddington.  Maximum platformed is 12 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) carriages (but how would you do that?) in Platform 1, but a long lead out past the old parcels / mail platform without points might provide an exceptional ability to handle more?

From the sectional appendix PDF - here:



If that "26 chains" on the left is the distance to the first point, then physically 20 carriages of 26 metres could just fit in there.

[GBM]

08:27 Plymouth to London Paddington due 11:59
Facilities on the 08:27 Plymouth to London Paddington due 11:59.
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.

One carriage locked out of use I wonder?
It then forms the 12:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:05
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.

16:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:37
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.

18:00 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:31
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.

Finally 5C25 2202 Plymouth to Laira T.& R.S.M.D.

[BBM]

A nice problem to have -
1A84 1020 Penzance to London Paddington
Left Penzance as 5 cars.
9 added at Plymouth!
Showing 14 cars to London!

This is a well-known issue on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website), there's a recent thread on Rail UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Forums which explains how it happens:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/22-coach-pendolino.290852/