Problems with Hitachi Intercity Express Trains - ongoing discussion since 2022

[whole diary]

[GBM]

5 Car trains running today
13:55 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:07
Facilities on the 13:55 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:07.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9. There are no reservations on this service.

AND
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:25
Facilities on the 17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:25.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9. There are no reservations on this service.

[GBM]

07:10 Penzance to London Paddington due 12:57
Facilities on the 07:10 Penzance to London Paddington due 12:57.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10 to Bristol Temple Meads. There are no reservations on this service.
No additional coaches waiting at Plymouth.
Cozy.
In addition the service shows Bristol Temple Meads [BRI^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads station (that is the formal station code - see also BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads station (strictly, it should be BRI) but BTM is a commonly used alternative))), or Bristol Royal Infirmary (hospital), depending on context)]
Service stops to drop passengers off only  (yeh, right!).

I see Penzance has lost the 0503 Paddington service, and all services (today?) run via Bristol.
Why?

[brooklea]

I see Penzance has lost the 0503 Paddington service, and all services (today?) run via Bristol.
Why?

Taunton to Castle Cary line is closed all week for drainage works.

[GBM]

08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:06
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:06 will no longer call at Newbury.
This is due to overcrowding as this train has fewer coaches than normal.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9. There are no reservations on this service.

[ChrisB]

This would make sense - I'm right in thinking that the 802s are GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) own trains that they specced at the higher power rating for the GUs^▸ (Generation Unit - Diesel engine plus electric generator)?, while the 800s are those that Hitachi own & specced to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) requirement & are lower rated?

So putting the 800s under less long-distance working off the wires? Ties in with the amended timetable starting on January 5th....

[grahame]

Asking questions that perhaps I should not:

* Is there some logic in having a more "cyclic" timetable which allows trains to be longer in summer and shorter in winter, allowing for more units to be under heavier maintenance when traffic levels are lower?  I appreciate that there are Newquay and Pembroke Dock difference already - though are those more vestiges of history?

* A modest thinning out of tourist services during the winter would allow for staff training to catch up and (ducks!) for staff to take their holidays away from the peak  .

* An adding of a few minutes here and there into schedules to avoid working trains to the extreme, though noting that the cycle length increase would tend to add the need for another train in the cycle, or reduce the frequency considering how short most turn rounds are already

* Saving trains / stock and improving reliability and even some frequencies by having long distance trains pick up some intermediate calls.  I could horrify Devon friends by suggesting that the Exeter - Paignton stopper every 30 minutes could, once every 2 hours, be the through train from London Paddington, for example.

I expect howls of "yes, but" ... but questions asked so "why not" can be explained.

[ray951]

This would make sense - I'm right in thinking that the 802s are GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) own trains that they specced at the higher power rating for the GUs^▸ (Generation Unit - Diesel engine plus electric generator)?, while the 800s are those that Hitachi own & specced to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) requirement & are lower rated?

So putting the 800s under less long-distance working off the wires? Ties in with the amended timetable starting on January 5th....

That doesn’t make sense to me unless the issue is related to ownership or age (with the 800 being older than the 802) rather than a mechanical fault.

I say this because, all else being equal, an engine that produces more power usually experiences greater stress and heat, which increases the likelihood of failure compared to a lower-powered unit of the same type.
If the engines in the 800 are being downrated (is this true or are they already down-rated?), that suggests the problem is linked to the extra heat and stress. So, wouldn’t it make more sense to assign the lower-powered units to the longer journeys instead of the higher-powered ones as they presumably have a lower chance of failure? I appreciate that would impact on the timings but better to take longer than not arrive at all.

[a-driver]

This would make sense - I'm right in thinking that the 802s are GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) own trains that they specced at the higher power rating for the GUs^▸ (Generation Unit - Diesel engine plus electric generator)?, while the 800s are those that Hitachi own & specced to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) requirement & are lower rated?

So putting the 800s under less long-distance working off the wires? Ties in with the amended timetable starting on January 5th....

This was originally the case when they were first introduced but the 800s now have the equivalent power output as an 802.  It’s just a software change. 

As for a timetable change.... The number of GU's isolated has dropped significantly so I can't see them making that decision now.  They believe the problem is related to contaminated fuel (salt specifically)

[John D]

Asking questions that perhaps I should not:

* Is there some logic in having a more "cyclic" timetable which allows trains to be longer in summer and shorter in winter, allowing for more units to be under heavier maintenance when traffic levels are lower?  I appreciate that there are Newquay and Pembroke Dock difference already - though are those more vestiges of history?

* A modest thinning out of tourist services during the winter would allow for staff training to catch up and (ducks!) for staff to take their holidays away from the peak  .

* An adding of a few minutes here and there into schedules to avoid working trains to the extreme, though noting that the cycle length increase would tend to add the need for another train in the cycle, or reduce the frequency considering how short most turn rounds are already

I expect howls of "yes, but" ... but questions asked so "why not" can be explained.

I grew up in New Milton on the Bournemouth line and there was different timetables in summer and winter back in 1970s and 1980s.

Winter Sundays were completely different with the fasts continuing all stations to Brockenhurst-Weymouth (and no slow trains).  The Lymington Pier service ran to Eastleigh as all stations (except Beaulieu Road which had no trains on Sundays in winter).

Effectively the 3 trains, fast, semi-fast and slow were reduced to one or two trains

So yes it can be done (and presumably in those days it was all worked out manually on graph paper), unlike today where paths can be checked by computer.

So yes can have different timetables, depending on season, and there is examples of it in South West.  Probably just to lazy to be creative these days.

[GBM]

05:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:54
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:54 is being delayed at Truro.
This is due to trespassers on the railway.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. There are no reservations on this service.

[GBM]

05:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:54
Facilities on the 05:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:54.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. There are no reservations on this service

[broadgage]

Are FGW^▸ (First Great Western) still maintaining that the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) are much more reliable than the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) ?

 

[GBM]

09:11 Penzance to London Paddington due 14:29
09:11 Penzance to London Paddington due 14:29 was started from Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Penzance, St Erth, Hayle, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard.
This is due to animals on the railway earlier today.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9. Service full and standing. There are no reservations on this service.

[ChrisB]

As for a timetable change.... The number of GU^▸ (Generation Unit - Diesel engine plus electric generator)'s isolated has dropped significantly so I can't see them making that decision now.  They believe the problem is related to contaminated fuel (salt specifically)

url=https://www.railmagazine.com/news/gwr-iet-maintenance-steps-up-as-investigation-suggests-fuel-issues]RAIL catches up....[/url]

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) maintenance steps up amid investigation into fuel issues

Maintenance of Great Western Railway’s IET fleet has been stepped up while an investigation looks into the cause of engine problems that have plagued the trains since mid-August.

The Hitachi-built Class 800 and’ 802’ bi-mode trains have been suffering from generator unit (GU) issues since mid-August.

RAIL understands fuel filters have become blocked which has then affected the effectiveness of the fuel pumps.

Investigations now trying to understand if the issue is with the fuel itself or the storage, and why it has only affected GWR’s Hitachi trains.

Hitachi has strengthened its maintenance regime in recent weeks and will continue to do so until the root cause is identified and addressed.

This has included replacing filters every 36 days or if fuel pressure drops before then. Filters are normally replaced every six months.

A Hitachi spokesperson said the manufacturer and GWR were “conducting a detailed review to understand the factors”.

“Since September, we have steadily increased the scale and breadth of our mitigations through an enhanced maintenance programme, and these efforts are now delivering results,” they said.

In November it was suggested that around a third of engines on GWR’s ‘800s’ and ‘802s’ were not functioning. That rate has now come down by around 25%-30%, with RAIL understanding trains are now being repaired at a faster rate than problems are occurring. 

Apologising for the issues, GWR Managing Director Mark Hopwood said: “We hope this rate of improvement will continue, but we know there is some way to go before we are delivering the level of service our customers expect.”

He added: “We're sorry for the delays some customers have experienced on our long-distance services in recent weeks. We're currently experiencing an issue affecting our Intercity Express Trains, which is impacting punctuality on some services."

RAIL was told the issue is not affecting ‘80x’ fleets being used by other operators.

[Mark A]

Wondering if the abstract from this paper relates to the issue - sodium in biofuels via the manufacturing process used for the fuel.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26273275

Mark