Project Churchward - future regional fleet for the West, new rolling stock to replace DMUs

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

I would sum them up as:

Reliability:  Better than the 180s, yes, but still not great - and they take a lot of looking after to get decent reliability.

Internal layout:  Excellent.  One of the best.

Capacity:  Poor.  A by-product of the great internal layout.

Suitability for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway):  Not too bad as a stop-gap.  As long as they are mostly kept as 5-car formations and definitely not 2-car ones!  Cardiff<>Portsmouth and Penzance routes would seem to be the best fit.

[broadgage]

Build some proper intercity trains for the longer distance routes, and cascade the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) to regional or secondary routes.

[bradshaw]

Lease of Class 175s to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) dated 29 August 2024

This VTN sets out First Greater Western Limited's ("GWR") intention to award a contract to Angel Trains Limited for the leasing of 70 x Class 175 Diesel Multiple Unit vehicles, to be in service from May 2025 on Devon and Cornwall routes.

The contract will have provisions to potentially run until 2032.

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/027591-2024
This is a new web service in beta at present.

[stuving]

Lease of Class 175s to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) dated 29 August 2024

This VTN sets out First Greater Western Limited's ("GWR") intention to award a contract to Angel Trains Limited for the leasing of 70 x Class 175 Diesel Multiple Unit vehicles, to be in service from May 2025 on Devon and Cornwall routes.

The contract will have provisions to potentially run until 2032.

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/027591-2024
This is a new web service in beta at present.

We still don't know when the date of award was or will be:

Subject to internal governance approvals and receiving no notice of any intention to legally challenge the award of this contract, First Greater Western Limited intends to award the Contract on a date following conclusion of the voluntary standstill period (i.e. no earlier than 10th September 2024).

[grahame]

I can't help wondering if Project Churchward is being morphed - at least at this interim stage - to Project Holman Fred Stephens.

The Cardiff - Portsmouth route currently in the hands of turbos which are fine for local journeys but not for journeys in excess of an hour. To be replaced by other vintage units - though in my view having additional stock AND stuff designed for regional services is an improvement.  Col Stephens was famous for stretching out the life of locomotives he bought almost-life-expired, and I can't help looking at current reliability issues in the area - "cancelled because of a fault on this train" stuff, and wonder how that will change with more 158s around.

[grahame]

Trying to do an FAQ^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions) about trains mentioned - classes we may have or be about to have:
Class 255   Origin year 1976
Class 150   Origin year 1984
Class 158   Origin year 1989
Class 165   Origin year 1990
Class 166   Origin year 1992
Class 175   Origin year 1992
Class 230   Origin year 2015 (on 1976 base)

And classes that may have been mentioned and could be useful in our regional fleet
Class 172   Origin year 2010
Class 756   Origin year 2018
Class 197   Origin year 2022
Class 231   Origin year 2023
Class 398   Origin year 2023

Class 153, 155 and 156 units may also be in store / available for lease, but long in the tooth?

[anthony215]

Trying to do an FAQ^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions) about trains mentioned - classes we may have or be about to have:
Class 255   Origin year 1976
Class 150   Origin year 1984
Class 158   Origin year 1989
Class 165   Origin year 1990
Class 166   Origin year 1992
Class 175   Origin year 1992
Class 230   Origin year 2015 (on 1976 base)

And classes that may have been mentioned and could be useful in our regional fleet
Class 172   Origin year 2010
Class 756   Origin year 2018
Class 197   Origin year 2022
Class 231   Origin year 2023
Class 398   Origin year 2023

Class 153, 155 and 156 units may also be in store / available for lease, but long in the tooth?

Shame the last labour government cancelled that order for 4 carriage class 172s for the Cardiff to Portsmouth Harbour service.

Hopefully we see movement on new rolling stock orders especially ro replace the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Dmus.

I wonder if battery fitted Class 350/2's could be useful to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) possibly with further electrification

[eightonedee]

I can't help wondering if Project Churchward is being morphed - at least at this interim stage - to Project Holman Fred Stephens.

The Cardiff - Portsmouth route currently in the hands of turbos which are fine for local journeys but not for journeys in excess of an hour. To be replaced by other vintage units - though in my view having additional stock AND stuff designed for regional services is an improvement.  Col Stephens was famous for stretching out the life of locomotives he bought almost-life-expired, and I can't help looking at current reliability issues in the area - "cancelled because of a fault on this train" stuff, and wonder how that will change with more 158s around.

Shush Grahame - someone might remember there are quite a few Pacers still knocking around, particularly on heritage lines. 

[TonyN]

I can't help wondering if Project Churchward is being morphed - at least at this interim stage - to Project Holman Fred Stephens.

The Cardiff - Portsmouth route currently in the hands of turbos which are fine for local journeys but not for journeys in excess of an hour. To be replaced by other vintage units - though in my view having additional stock AND stuff designed for regional services is an improvement.  Col Stephens was famous for stretching out the life of locomotives he bought almost-life-expired, and I can't help looking at current reliability issues in the area - "cancelled because of a fault on this train" stuff, and wonder how that will change with more 158s around.

Shush Grahame - someone might remember there are quite a few Pacers still knocking around, particularly on heritage lines. 

I was thinking more along the lines of a couple of 10 year old single decker buses from Wales. Like the ones we now have in Worcestershire. Coupled together back to back and fitted with rail wheels like Stephens did with his Ford model T railbuses.

[UstiImmigrunt]

Correct, 15x and 175s cannot couple up. It used to cause chaos on the Marches if an 15x needed help and the only unit within 50 miles was an 175.

And regarding the TfW^▸ (Transport for Wales) 15x going to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). 158s can't due to the ETRMS fitment and wouldn't be ironic if the ex Wessex 150/2s returned to Exeter.

Unfortunately they are due C6 exams and Portercrook won't pay for those.

[grahame]

And regarding the TfW^▸ (Transport for Wales) 15x going to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). 158s can't due to the ETRMS fitment and wouldn't be ironic if the ex Wessex 150/2s returned to Exeter.

It struck me that the Cambrian Coast 158s have a lot of £££ signalling stuff on them which wouldn't be much use elsewhere, but they can run elsewhere, surely - they do at the moment.   And if some new trains are ETRMS fitted, what else will be done with them?

[John D]

And regarding the TfW^▸ (Transport for Wales) 15x going to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). 158s can't due to the ETRMS fitment and wouldn't be ironic if the ex Wessex 150/2s returned to Exeter.

The ETRMS fitment was not originally part of the trains, it was a later add-on, so in theory can be unbolted and taken off again.  Yes it would be more work (and more cost) to make them GWR spec, but it is not impossible.


On another note, the latest version of the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) procurement pipeline spreadsheet, has the GWR project Churchward DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) replacement with slightly earlier date than those for Northern.  Confusing me because Northern have issued a tender, but to best of my knowledge GWR haven't.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/future-commercial-contracts-for-dft-and-partners

The estimated contract start dates are now 9th Jan 2026 for GWR, 2nd March 2026 for Northern DMUs and 27th May 2026 for Northern EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), battery EMUs and multi mode MUs^▸ (Multiple Unit)

Can anyone enlighten me what is going on.

[anthony215]

I thought GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) were trying to do a joint order with Chiltern and East West rail unless the dft have decided they can get GWR some new rolling stock before then by tagging some onto Northerns.

[ChrisB]

EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context) aren't ordering stock - they are simply building the rails for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Chiltern have just been confirmed as the operator & have 6 Cl 196s for phase 1 of EWR services. They are going to need extras for phase 3, not sure about phase 2 (Bedford)

[anthony215]

This article had been doing the rounds and been posted now by rail magazine:

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/dft-talking-with-three-operators-about-combined-order-to-replace-dmus

Looks like the dft want to do a large combined order covering GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/Chiltern and SWR^» (South Western Railway - about). Battery emus look to be the plan and given Siemens proposals for discontinues electrification and new fast charging system been shown on the Greenford branch this could  actually happen.

Let's face it the GWR dmu fleet except 175s are in need or urgently being replaced same with the 159s etc