Project Churchward - future regional fleet for the West, new rolling stock to replace DMUs

[whole diary]

[John D]

Just spotted that DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has updated its procurement spreadsheet.

The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) line now includes
"Potential for this procurement to include units for other non-GWR routes." which suggests there could be add on of more units for other Operators

The full text is "Procurement of rolling stock for Thames Valley / North Downs and West (including options)   
Replacement of all existing DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (and possibly EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)), excluding the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) fleet, with Battery Electric Multiple Units (BEMUs) and/or diesel multi-mode units. Potential for this procurement to include units for other non-GWR routes."

I don't know if all existing DMUs includes the 175s (were 175s part of GWR fleet on update date 11th September)

https://www.gov.uk/csv-preview/6835872dd6d2692c9bdb02dd/dft-future-commercial-contracts-dft-partners.csv

[eightonedee]

Well..if we are soon to be under one national operator (GBR^▸ (Great British Railways)), it's difficult to understand why there's not one project to replace all the remaining "second generation" diesel units across the country. Wouldn't it be nice and sensible if this was a phased 5 to 10 year program to work through the current diesel stock, starting with the oldest, and replace them with a new, inter-operable family of designs capable of working anywhere in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

It's also a little concerning that current EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) (presumably the Electrostar 387s) are possibly included as well among the stock to be replaced. That seems a strong signal that there's no prospect of further electrification on any of the current GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) & Chiltern networks, nor the West of England main line.

Another 30-40 years of sub-optimal rail transport ahead?

[Electric train]

Well..if we are soon to be under one national operator (GBR^▸ (Great British Railways)), it's difficult to understand why there's not one project to replace all the remaining "second generation" diesel units across the country. Wouldn't it be nice and sensible if this was a phased 5 to 10 year program to work through the current diesel stock, starting with the oldest, and replace them with a new, inter-operable family of designs capable of working anywhere in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

It's also a little concerning that current EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) (presumably the Electrostar 387s) are possibly included as well among the stock to be replaced. That seems a strong signal that there's no prospect of further electrification on any of the current GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) & Chiltern networks, nor the West of England main line.

Another 30-40 years of sub-optimal rail transport ahead?

GBR is a "shadow" body at the moment as it has no legal standing, but that is not to say the rail industry is not working in the background of future rolling stock.

There is limited expansion of 25kV electrification on the Western Route, the only likely areas are Didcot - Oxford, Bristol Temple Meads - Bristol Parkway; there are still a number of issues to resolve for the Temple Meads route via Bath.  Therefore the option of replacing the 387's with a dual mode (contact system - battery) would make for a much more flexible fleet. 

The industry is looking a "short gap electrification" this where electrification is installed for a number of miles to charge the on board batteries also the GWR type scheme trial on the Greenford branch.

[TaplowGreen]

Well..if we are soon to be under one national operator (GBR^▸ (Great British Railways)), it's difficult to understand why there's not one project to replace all the remaining "second generation" diesel units across the country. Wouldn't it be nice and sensible if this was a phased 5 to 10 year program to work through the current diesel stock, starting with the oldest, and replace them with a new, inter-operable family of designs capable of working anywhere in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

It's also a little concerning that current EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) (presumably the Electrostar 387s) are possibly included as well among the stock to be replaced. That seems a strong signal that there's no prospect of further electrification on any of the current GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) & Chiltern networks, nor the West of England main line.

Another 30-40 years of sub-optimal rail transport ahead?

GBR is a "shadow" body at the moment as it has no legal standing, but that is not to say the rail industry is not working in the background of future rolling stock.

Given that it was launched with much fanfare over a year ago, and has burned through upwards of £50 million already, it would be handy to know when it's going to step out of the shadows and start making a difference?

[ChrisB]

When the Government finally gets around to publishing the Rail Bill, and then making time for it to go though Parliament & become law. And a few weeks after it receives Royal Assent.

[John D]

Modern Railways has also published an article on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) rolling stock plans and aspirations

https://www.modernrailways.com/article/gwr-focuses-regional-fleet

[grahame]

Modern Railways has also published an article on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) rolling stock plans and aspirations

https://www.modernrailways.com/article/gwr-focuses-regional-fleet

Most of that behind a paywall.  In the teaser, I note ...

“We’ve got agreement in principle with the Department for Transport to look at what a replacement programme might look like,’ reports GWR Managing Director Mark Hopwood, “although there is some debate about the timescales”.

"We're talking about it", alas, fails to commit anyone to actually doing anything about it as far as I can see.  It's rathe like talking about service reliability - sounds good, but if the train doesn't turn up, you can't travel on the fact that you've talked about why not ... for years ...

[ChrisB]

This refers to the Churchward project we already know about I think

[Chris from Nailsea]

Fair comment, ChrisB: I have therefore moved and merged three existing topics - here - in the interests of continuity and clarity, for future reference.

[John D]

Modern Railways has also published an article on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) rolling stock plans and aspirations

https://www.modernrailways.com/article/gwr-focuses-regional-fleet

Most of that behind a paywall.  In the teaser, I note ...

“We’ve got agreement in principle with the Department for Transport to look at what a replacement programme might look like,’ reports GWR Managing Director Mark Hopwood, “although there is some debate about the timescales”.

"We're talking about it", alas, fails to commit anyone to actually doing anything about it as far as I can see.  It's rathe like talking about service reliability - sounds good, but if the train doesn't turn up, you can't travel on the fact that you've talked about why not ... for years ...

Part of the MR^▸ (Midland Railway, Modern Railways magazine or Motor Rail, depending on context) article is on the existing DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) and says

DIESELS SOLDIERING ON

It’s an exciting plan that meshes with net zero aspirations and we wait to see if the Department for Transport signs up to the vision – the positive point is that government recognises the need for replacement trains.

In the meantime, GWR is soldiering on with its ageing DMU fleet – with a C6 overhaul programme underway on the Class 150 fleet to keep them going for another few years that is costing north of half a million pounds per vehicle. “I am pleased that it’s being done properly: the corrosion is being dealt with, and we’re making a better environment for passengers” comments the MD. “But at the end of the day we have to remember that this fleet dates from 1985.”

The Turbo^▸ (Class 165 and 166 trains used on Thames Valley services) and Class 158 fleets are younger than the Class 150s, but won’t necessarily be the last to go. These trains were the first generation with an aluminium bodyshell, and nobody knows how long they will last – Mr Hopwood hazards a 2032 end date.

“The steel-bodied Class 150s are getting a lot of new steel in the C6 anti-corrosion work – but you can’t do that with a one-piece aluminium bodyshell” points out Mark Hopwood. “So the Turbos’ lifespan is an unknown.”

[anthony215]

Just spotted that DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has updated its procurement spreadsheet.

The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) line now includes
"Potential for this procurement to include units for other non-GWR routes." which suggests there could be add on of more units for other Operators

The full text is "Procurement of rolling stock for Thames Valley / North Downs and West (including options)   
Replacement of all existing DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (and possibly EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)), excluding the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) fleet, with Battery Electric Multiple Units (BEMUs) and/or diesel multi-mode units. Potential for this procurement to include units for other non-GWR routes."

I don't know if all existing DMUs includes the 175s (were 175s part of GWR fleet on update date 11th September)

https://www.gov.uk/csv-preview/6835872dd6d2692c9bdb02dd/dft-future-commercial-contracts-dft-partners.csv

Dont forget now The DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) want to do a large combined order fornGWR also though including replacement for Chilterns class 165s and SWRs^» (South Western Railway - about) class 158/159 fleets

[John D]

Everything seems have gone quiet regarding any news of a replacement fleet in 5-8 years time.  Although might be something intermittently churning on in the background.

Modern Railways has just released an article on Siemens new Desiro verve.   Seems to be a new version of desiro (of which SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) has hundreds of carriages).

23m length, designed to fit any route that can take a 23m mk3 or class 158 / 159 DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).  Normally in 3car or 5car formations (longer may be optional).   The illustration suggests pairs of double doors, but nearer the centre (roughly 40% and 60% of carriage length), this is an arrangement common in Europe that allows lower floor in middle for level boarding.

Article suggests some parts come straight from the mireo (which is operating in Europe), batteries, power bogies, cab design (although tweaked to UK^▸ (United Kingdom) loading gauge). 

Sounds like a dual voltage version will be available (handy for services  to Gatwick, Portsmouth, Weymouth etc.  or if SWR wanted them on Waterloo/Southampton - Salisbury services

https://www.modernrailways.com/article/siemens-desiro-verve-battery-electric-train

My own thought is would GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) want 2 versions of a BEMU, a 5 or 6 car regional one with seats suitable for 3+ hour journeys, and a 3car high density one for Bristol suburban (assuming Temple Meads area gets electrified soon).   Ideally with few token platform extensions to allow pairs of 3car units (hopefully no more 2car units), which means platforms of at least 142m, perhaps 150m long, although on fully electric routes 165m would be better to allow 2x4car 20m EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) (and there are lots of spare 350s in store, which would be quicker to arrive than any new fleet).  I think the proposed new stations along south wales route are designed with 170m platforms.

[John D]

Dft have updated their procurement spreadsheet March 2026

Against the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) entry the estimated commencement date is now TBC (which presumably is Government speak for not imminent)

Procurement of rolling stock for Thames Valley / North Downs and West (including options)   
Replacement of all existing DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (and possibly EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)), excluding the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) fleet, with Battery Electric Multiple Units (BEMUs) and/or diesel multi-mode units.
Potential for this procurement to include units for other non-GWR routes.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69a6a120bc86a487b52c71a9/dft-future-commercial-contracts-dft-partners.csv

Rather disappointing that replacement trains appear to have been pushed into the long grass

[Kernow Otter]

Government (s) not investing in South Western transport?  Who would have thought it.....

[Red Squirrel]

[...[

Rather disappointing that replacement trains appear to have been pushed into the long grass

Did they forget to fit buffers at the end of the siding these hypothetical trains were shunted into?