Project Churchward - future regional fleet for the West, new rolling stock to replace DMUs

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

They could have done some good publicity if they had go ahead with creating a few more battery powered class 230s ateast for the thames valley branches and possibly say Portishead to Henbury  with fast charging technology would havw freed up a few 165/166's

2030 we are going to run into issues not with the class 150s I think its going to be the 158s or.tuebos that are going to start really having problems with their bodyshells. Que the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) panicking and spending a fortune or ordering cheap class 197s from CAF^▸ (Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles, Spanish train manufacturer)

[TonyK]

Dft have updated their procurement spreadsheet March 2026

Against the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) entry the estimated commencement date is now TBC (which presumably is Government speak for not imminent)

To Be Cancelled?

[Noggin]

Dft have updated their procurement spreadsheet March 2026

Against the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) entry the estimated commencement date is now TBC (which presumably is Government speak for not imminent)

To Be Cancelled?

More like not letting a private TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) get the credit for it and/or letting the Scots figure out the procurement first. 

[Electric train]

Dft have updated their procurement spreadsheet March 2026

Against the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) entry the estimated commencement date is now TBC (which presumably is Government speak for not imminent)

To Be Cancelled?

More like not letting a private TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) get the credit for it and/or letting the Scots figure out the procurement first. 

I agree the taking of the GWR franchise into GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) could be heralded with a fanfare of GBR have taken the initiative to order new trains for the TV^▸ (Thames Valley, or TeleVision, depending on context) and the West of England

[John D]

This thread will be 3 years old this month.

Some talk and rumours .... yes

Order placed and trains in build .... nope

Current status after 3 years : not even an invitation to tender

Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else also think, that any new trains will not be in 2020s, and could be (at least) half a decade away

[IndustryInsider]

Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else also think, that any new trains will not be in 2020s, and could be (at least) half a decade away

Yes, I would expect the early 2030s.  Which to be fair does tie in nicely with the expected life cycle of many of the trains which will be replaced, like the 150s/158s/165s and 166s GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) operate.

[Noggin]

This thread will be 3 years old this month.

Some talk and rumours .... yes

Order placed and trains in build .... nope

Current status after 3 years : not even an invitation to tender

Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else also think, that any new trains will not be in 2020s, and could be (at least) half a decade away

Wasn't there a suggestion that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) were waiting for the Scots to do the hard work around procurement and place an order for their fleet, possibly in the hope that they could get a cheap follow-on order (like First did to them on the 802s)?


 

[grahame]

Wasn't there a suggestion that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) were waiting for [the Scots] to do the hard work ...

There are a number of areas where progress appears stalled and the cynical could suggest there's a PR^▸ (Public Relations) bonus to be had by having shovel-readier plans.    We are speculating in another thread about when trains will start from Milton Keynes to Oxford, and I wonder if it will before or after Chiltern transfers to public ownership on 20th September 2026.

[ChrisB]

Afterwards.....

[Electric train]

Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else also think, that any new trains will not be in 2020s, and could be (at least) half a decade away

Yes, I would expect the early 2030s.  Which to be fair does tie in nicely with the expected life cycle of many of the trains which will be replaced, like the 150s/158s/165s and 166s GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) operate.

I was at my formal retirement from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) celebration recently, as my former Route merged with its principle TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) in July 2025 there were senior Executives from both sides of the business; talking to the former TOC execs they said their entire thought process of the next generation of rolling stock has been reshaped now that there is joint Board both sides have better access to each others engineers and ops teams.

It is likely the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) is waiting for all of the GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) to come together or at least the majority before it starts the serious tendering stages

Who knew a joined up track and train railway management would work ..................... nothing like reinventing the wheel 

[anthony215]

Been talk east-west rail plan on ordering BEMUs with future electrification of the route so maybe a tag on order for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/ Chiltern.

DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)/treasury will need to get wires up though especially round Bristol TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) to filton/Chippenham and Eston super mare. Could Instal a charging bar at Portishead and Severn beach like TFW did with the bay platform at Caerphilly.

Im putting my money on Siemens being the preferred future supplier of the new stock for Gwr

[broadgage]

I would support battery power, and partial electrification, so as to reduce miles run on battery power.
Total electrification is rather problematic due to limited clearances under bridges, but electrification of 95% of a route is much easier.
I have long been of the view that ALL new electric trains should be fitted with batteries for when the wires come down, having incurred the expense of the equipment, may as well use it.

[John D]

I would support battery power, and partial electrification, so as to reduce miles run on battery power.
Total electrification is rather problematic due to limited clearances under bridges, but electrification of 95% of a route is much easier.
I have long been of the view that ALL new electric trains should be fitted with batteries for when the wires come down, having incurred the expense of the equipment, may as well use it.

A lot depends on age of structures:
original broad gauge was 15 feet high in centre, and 13'0.5" at 9 foot wide (which is relevant for arches). 
Later was 13'3" at centre and 11' at 9feet wide. 
Around 120 years ago height went up to 13'6" at centre.
As long ago as 1928 the then Board of Trade decided on 15' for new structures (so most of the cut off lines should be this, and steel or concrete beams were normal for new construction rather than brick or stone arches by 98 years ago.

Seems that 1950s and 1960s modernisation plan didn't envision electrification in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) territory and number of signal gantries didn't provide clearance for electrification.  Although many of these have gone in more recent times.

Potentially there are less structures that need modifying for overhead wires (and to allow W10 or W12 container or multimode freight) on some lines than some think.

Ideally do not want unpowered sections in the wires, or worse still gaps where pantograph has to be dropped.  And of course there is now slim fixed bar which has been developed, as a realistic alternative to deeper suspended wires for use in tunnels or under tight bridges. 

Although battery electric units can work with wiring gaps, and it is realistic option on branches and lighter use passenger only lines.  It is not helpful on freight routes if ever intend to work heavy freight with electric locos (and plenty of routes in Somerset and Wiltshire see heavy aggregate trains) where continuous power (and of course regeneration on downhill or slowing) is important

[Electric train]

I would support battery power, and partial electrification, so as to reduce miles run on battery power.
Total electrification is rather problematic due to limited clearances under bridges, but electrification of 95% of a route is much easier.
I have long been of the view that ALL new electric trains should be fitted with batteries for when the wires come down, having incurred the expense of the equipment, may as well use it.

The new buzz words (no pun intended) is skip electrification and or gap electrification.   Basically a small area of a few miles is electrified to charge and power trains, on the third rail system talk is of removing conductor rails in some stations where there are know trespass problems especially drunken Friday and Saturday nights trespassing.

Certainly the talk is for Southern third rail train care depots to be de-electrified with the trains moving on batteries, this is to improve staff safety, with only stabling sidings remaining electrified.

It is almost certain that all future passenger rolling stock procurement will have some form of battery powered traction system, if they have a fossil fuel prime mover this is likely to be the secondary system.

[Electric train]

I would support battery power, and partial electrification, so as to reduce miles run on battery power.
Total electrification is rather problematic due to limited clearances under bridges, but electrification of 95% of a route is much easier.
I have long been of the view that ALL new electric trains should be fitted with batteries for when the wires come down, having incurred the expense of the equipment, may as well use it.

Although battery electric units can work with wiring gaps, and it is realistic option on branches and lighter use passenger only lines.  It is not helpful on freight routes if ever intend to work heavy freight with electric locos (and plenty of routes in Somerset and Wiltshire see heavy aggregate trains) where continuous power (and of course regeneration on downhill or slowing) is important

Freight locomotives will I suspect move to hydrogen in place of diesel.  Also it should not be underestimated the use that batteries could be used to maintain even the heaviest of trains once on the move