Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
No recent travel & transport from BBC stories as at 18:35 21 May 2025
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 23/05/25 - Go-op Crowd Funding closes
24/05/25 - Steamship Shieldhall / Soton
25/05/25 - SWR Franchise expires
31/05/25 - Walk from Trowbridge

On this day
21st May (1874)
Construction Starts, Queensbury Tunnel (link)

Train RunningCancelled
15:49 Plymouth to London Paddington
16:48 London Paddington to Swansea
17:50 Reading to Gatwick Airport
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
Short Run
15:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance
16:09 Gloucester to Weymouth
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
Delayed
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
15:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
16:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
17:09 Gloucester to Weymouth
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:16 Par to Newquay
20:14 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
May 21, 2025, 18:54:18 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[314] A trip on the Molli
[183] Where was Finn today, 15th May 2025?
[83] Lessons from the line to Tessin
[54] Night Riviera Sleeper train - between Paddington and Penzance
[26] RAF Chilmark
[17] Station lighting hours
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Taking Train Operation into public ownership - Govt planning from 4.12.2024  (Read 4616 times)
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5682



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2024, 10:34:34 »

I am not convinced that public ownership will improve matters, but it is IMHO ('in my humble opinion') worth trying.
A very close eye should be kept on newly nationalised TOCs (Train Operating Company) in order to determine if they are doing better under public ownership than previously.

Consider both customer satisfaction and finances.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 19635



View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2025, 16:45:01 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Greater Anglia to be nationalised - rail operator

Greater Anglia is set to be nationalised later this year, the rail operator has said.

The company, which runs trains across the East of England and into London, said it would be brought under public ownership on 12 October.

It said train services, timetables and station facilities would be unaffected by the transition, and employees' roles would all transfer across.

Martin Beable, the company's managing director, said the firm would "remain focused" on delivering its services. The Department for Transport has been approached for comment.

Greater Anglia runs trains throughout Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire, including the Stansted Express airport service.

Mr Beable said: "I am very proud of what we have achieved here in East Anglia over the past 13 years, significantly improving standards, investing in a complete fleet of new trains and working closely with the local community."

Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7433


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 00:30:11 »

In March, the Times reported that the new GBR (Great British Railways) branding and logo would be appearing on trains this month (May); that must be SWR» (South Western Railway - about). But yesterday the Sunday Times had a story that GBR's branding will not be used until services are of sufficient quality. ("Train firms must be travelling in the right direction to earn Union Jack logo.") Nothing was said about how "Limbo Rail" trains would look in the interim, nor on whether SWR has met this standard.

I also got an e-mail from SWR today about the transition, but that was on the subject "Important information - How we'll look after your data post-nationalisation". I guess that's down to statutory requirements. There is just this short bit at the start about running trains:

Quote
As you may know, on 25 May 2025, South Western Railway services will be operated by a new company – South Western Railway Limited – as part of a planned transition into public ownership.

Although the legal operator is changing, your experience won’t. You’ll continue to see the same branding, same services, and the same teams running your trains.

I understand that one of the "new" 701s will be done up for a launch of the new livery next Monday. I don't see that as contradicting what was said by SWR or the ST article - it's just PR (Public Relations).

There was another. longer, article in the business bit of yesterday's ST. This was a general piece about the difficulties still to be overcome in creating GBR. It quoted a number of individuals in the industry, but I didn't see anything really new. There was a list of "expected" reversion dates not yet announced, though the dates given are the current contract end dates (core, or extension if taken).
WMT   20/9/26
EMR» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains - about)    18/10/26
AWC   18/10/26
CC       17/10/27
Chilt    12/12/27
GTR» (Govia Thameslink Railway - about)     1/4/28
GWR (Great Western Railway)    25/6/28

Those don't fit with the government's stated plan of doing about three a year, which they see as what the team setting up OLR management organisations cane manage. The last date in 2028 even contradicts the other article, which says the last one will be in October 2027.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 44094



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 08:17:41 »

I got one (actually two) emails ... titles

Quote
Action needed: do you want to keep receiving offers, discounts and travel inspiration?

and

Quote
Sorry. We fixed the link - Action needed: do you want to keep receiving offers, discounts and travel inspiration?

It seems that routine travel updates will continue, but under GDPR I have also given the current operating company to contact me occasionally with offers and ideas, and I have to do so again for the new (HMG) operator.  On livery it does not need to initially change as the new setup is being done by a transfer to the First / MTR (Mass Transit Railway, based in Hong Kong) subsidiary company to the government.  May be a need to remove "a subsidiary of" tag lines.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13364


View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 09:39:39 »

From the Guardian

Quote
Will Labour’s shake-up really fix Great Britain’s ailing railways?

As South Western becomes the latest operator to be renationalised, there are questions about whether the changes will lead to lower fares

At the rarely experienced hour of 6.14am on Sunday, the first train to carry the Great British Railways branding will make its way out of London Waterloo to Shepperton: traversing the Surrey commuter belt emblazoned with a red, white and blue GBR (Great British Railways) logo, and proudly renationalised to boot.

The next train with the planned state body’s branding may be some years behind it. But the Labour government hopes to grab the moment to demonstrate to an increasingly impatient electorate that the wheels of change – in rail at least – are finally turning.

The first renationalisation, landing on the late May bank holiday weekend, is one of Britain’s biggest commuter services – although the trains, including the one currently getting the GBR paint job in a Bournemouth depot, will still run as South Western Railway for some time. As the first emblem of a potential new era pulls into the station, what does the shake-up mean for the rail industry – and will passengers notice the difference?

How did we get here?

Legislation to bring train operators into state hands barely needed one sheet of A4. The bigger puzzle, in which renationalisation is one crucial piece, is achieving the goal shared by all parties of an integrated railway, where track and train are managed by one directing or guiding mind.

A consultation on the plans to create a dedicated public body only finished last month – about four years after the then prime minister, Boris Johnson, announced his own Great British Railways, with his government declaring an end to a “broken system”. Even that moment was long delayed: the rail review announced after the timetabling fiasco of 2018 promised reform by 2020.

GBR proved not to be, as some once declared, dead, but it does not yet live, after an arduous, costly gestation; a 100-strong “transition team” spent £135m working on the railway’s restructuring before being quietly disbanded in March.

Industry figures insist that Labour, with the ex-Network Rail chair Peter Hendy on the inside as the rail minister, has given fresh impetus to the process despite perceptions of continued drift.

The Department for Transport (DfT» (Department for Transport - about)) said it was “working quickly” on “fixing the railway with generational reform”, but legislation expected by the summer could slip into the autumn, and it now says GBR will be up and running in new Derby headquarters in 2027 rather than late 2026.

The first steps are yet to be officially announced but Southeastern – nationalised after an accounting scandal in 2021 – is expected next month to become the first regional integrated railway, with track and train becoming the ultimate responsibility of a single managing director in Kent.

For now, government sources say, GBR is “less of a new organisation than a standard we want railways to meet”. But as the consultation has demonstrated, important questions remain.

Who will be in charge?

Promises to move fast and fix things have not been enough to convince Sir Andrew Haines, the chief executive of Network Rail and the leader of the GBR transition team, to stave off retirement plans. That might improve the optics for those who insist GBR will not simply be a Network Rail takeover of the railway.

Whoever ends up at the helm will want to know how much they are beholden to the government and regulators. Ministers have declared, but not always demonstrated, that they do not wish to micromanage rail; and rail bosses are keen to see the Office of Rail and Road’s remit cut for a different era.

Is open access welcome or not?

Not least among the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)’s current powers are decisions over “open access” trains, where a competing company sets up new direct trains on a specific, previously unserved route – now seen as the last gasp for private train operations.

Labour has liked to stress that nationalisation is pragmatic not ideological – with a place for open access services, which coincidentally run into “red wall” constituencies. But a slew of applications has led to the transport secretary, Heidi Alexander, sounding a more discouraging note.

Open access trains, such as Grand Central and Lumo, are supposed to stoke new passenger demand and avoid “abstraction” of revenue – or taking ticket money away from the DfT. Senior figures in rail are dubious, but others also suggest that the government should be wary of driving companies such as First Group – a British transport firm running buses and trams as well as trains – completely out of the industry.

How does devolution meet freight?

In the quest to cut carbon, backing rail freight appears a no-brainer – according to Network Rail, one freight train is the equivalent of 76 lorries on the road.

The legislation gives GBR a “duty to promote” rail freight. However, the private freight operators fear for their position when other trains are unified under the controlling brand – particularly if metro mayors can control local lines. Freight shares tracks in London that are now used intensively for Overground services; Andy Burnham, who hopes to take trains into Manchester’s Bee Network, has already spoken of his frustration at freight “trundling” through the city centre.

Will GBR end – or fuel – strikes?

For all the rhetoric over two years of industrial action, the Labour offer that ended strikes was no different from the Conservatives’ in cash terms; only conditions and context.

A nationalised railway was a big aspiration of the rail unions. But as the drivers’ union Aslef acknowledges, a fragmented, privatised railway rapidly increased its members’ wages; short-term franchises pushed some operators to poach drivers rather than fully train new ones. How pay rates work out under a single employer remains to be seen. Disputes could spread across the country more quickly in response to attempts to bear down on costs, such as extending driver-only operation of trains – let alone the next pay round.

Will the money keep flowing?
With revenues flatlining and office workers in the south-east, once the bedrock of rail finances, showing no appetite for a renewed five-day commute, taxpayer subsidies have needed to stay high, with roughly £2bn more a year to fund train operations. Next month’s spending review is unlikely to bring good news for the DfT’s budget – let alone for the future of rail infrastructure projects pledged by the previous government, which Alexander has characterised as “promising the moon on a stick”.

The Railway Industry Association has sounded a warning that even the five-year funding settlement that rail counts on could be jeopardised. Labour sources insist GBR should have more long-term funding – but RIA, representing the supply chain, said that a consultation reference to potential “mid-period reductions to funds available” would cause more concern and uncertainty.

Will GBR make things better for passengers?

If a passenger had a pound for every time a minister vowed rail reform would put them first, they could almost afford a walk-up intercity train fare.

Most benefits are indirect. Greater accountability is perhaps the critical change: as Lord Hendy has put it, one person waking up and knowing that they have to fix their bit of the railway. Regional managers will be in charge of track and train, with no one else to blame. An overview of the issues and needs of both sides should improve reliability.

Labour has also promised that a new passenger watchdog, to be created alongside GBR, will have more teeth than the current Transport Focus – or at least bark louder.

Reforming fares should be easier, with a single operator ideally making ticketing less confusing for passengers. But changes brought in under the DfT-owned LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) suggest they will not be universally popular – or protect passengers from the extraordinarily high fares to simply take the next train.

According to the DfT, “public ownership will save taxpayers up to an estimated £150m every year in fees alone.” A state-owned online ticket retailer may recoup a decent slice of the £208m that Trainline made from passengers in Great Britain last year. But right now lowering the taxpayer subsidy may be the focus – and passengers may wait some time until a cheaper railway spells cheaper fares.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules via admin@railcustomer.info. Full legal statement (here).

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page