Bus Service 205

[whole diary]

[stuving]

That is probably because Eurostar didn't want to respond. They would have seen the consultation

There is a very long list of "stakeholders consulted with" - over 500 of them - which I presume were actively contacted. It does not include the operators of any of the railway services relevant here, nor Network Rail (station owners and managers). (Abellio is named but that will be for buses.) ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) and RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) are, however in the list, as is National Grid. It's enough to start people muttering about judicial reviews!

[grahame]

That is probably because Eurostar didn't want to respond. They would have seen the consultation

There is a very long list of "stakeholders consulted with" - over 500 of them - which I presume were actively contacted. It does not include the operators of any of the railway services relevant here, nor Network Rail (station owners and managers). (Abellio is named but that will be for buses.) ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) and RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) are, however in the list, as is National Grid. It's enough to start people muttering about judicial reviews!

Reading the consultation report (110 pages) some things strike me.  The very high proportion of people against the changes, and giving logical reasons. The postcode data of respondents and the mapping of them which does not go beyond a rather limited part of London (and no pointers off the map to any inputs from further afield).  The accessibility issue - as I read it TfL^» (Transport for London - about) answers "yes, it will inconvenience those who are less mobile or nervous - but it will also inconvenience those who do not have mobility restrictions and are confident, and that makes it OK".

You don't make an omelette without breaking eggs.  Problem is, these eggs are fertile ground to build a proper integrated national and international service that's environmental and set for the future, whereas the omelette has bits of shell in it - edible for sure, but never less difficult and awkward to eat, and will put many off.

In my mind, I compare this to the breaking of connectional opportunities at Fishguard and Rosslare, rendering the route from the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to Ireland a shadow of its former self at a time we should be encouraging international public transport.



The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) input is notable in that it echos many of our thoughts for the passengers.  Thank you GWR. I note GWR are classified as an "other" type responder rather than being placed in a more solicited category such as "providers of connecting services".  The 205 is / was a London Rail Terminal connection bus. Why didn't TfL consult as a planned category with train operators who's customers are affected by this?

[grahame]

I just caught the 205 from Paddington - a lovely new stop above the Elizabeth Line platforms, though it does lack Real Time Information.  It was around 14:35.   Amongst the people who got on there and at the following 2 stop were
* A gent helped with a stick
* A lady with a pram and a baby in it
* Two people wearing facemarks
* Three groups with heavy luggage
* A lady with a wheelie cart an a limp
* A lady with a big pack and what looked like two guitars in cases
I asked the driver about a direct but to Kings Cross next week and he confirmed what I had understood - that there won't be one and I should take the 27 and change after Baker Street.

I sat where I could watch where people were going. Of the 8 people / groups, just two got off before the 27 and 205 routes diverge at the top of Tottenham Court Road.  So that was six through groups whom I would classify as in need of an extra help.  Not all disabilities are visible.  I note another old boy getting off at Kings' Cross and really struggling; in hindsight I'm pretty sure he joined at Paddington.

Now I was also struck by a very large flow on and off the bus of fit local traffic, much of which seemed to be for incredibly short journeys.

Probably too late to do anything that may influence the future of the service.  The first and last bus time sheet has already gone for the 205 at the Paddington stop with a poster describing the changes in as positive light as they can.

[ChrisB]

TfL^» (Transport for London - about) is having it's budget held back too by the Government - it's not TfL's fault, per se

[RichardB]

TfL^» (Transport for London - about) is having it's budget held back too by the Government - it's not TfL's fault, per se

Big improvement in Spending Review.  https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/spending-review-transport-for-london-grateful-for-2-2bn-settlement-and-dlr-boost-11-06-2025/

[RichardB]

Roger French has written a very good blog about the Consultation on the 205 here https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/06/07/whats-the-point-of-consulting/

[grahame]

Roger French has written a very good blog about the Consultation on the 205 here https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/06/07/whats-the-point-of-consulting/

That is so useful, Richard, that I quote in critical review ...

Before enacting a change of this significance TfL^» (Transport for London - about) is obliged to go through a formal consultation process and did so between 21 October 2024 and 10 January 2025. The overwhelming response to the consultation was against the proposed cut and rerouting yet TfL are going ahead regardless. This highlights the useless nature of these formal consultation processes which end up being a tick box exercise and a very costly, bureaucratic and resource intensive exercise too.

I sat on the 205 yesterday watching people struggle to get on around Paddington, and struggle to get off in the Euston / British Library / King's Cross area and know they can look forward to struggling off and on additionally along the Marylebone Road in the future.   And I watched substantial flows leaving Eurostar arrivals with very much more in chattels, aids and dependents with them and heading for the front of the station ... for a proportion I'm sure the 205 to Paddington would have been useful should they know about it.

Is an underground fare more than a bus fare?  How much does it cost TfL for each person they carry in each way between Paddington and Kings Cross / St Pancras?   Are they looking at a raising of extra revenue from the transfer market of none-residents between the termini, and prioritising that over the convenience and care of those people?

[ChrisB]

Is an underground fare more than a bus fare?

Yes....and you can board any number of buses within an hour for one bus fare too.

[eightonedee]

If you book a through ticket to St Pancras, it's only £4 extra above the ticket for Paddington from Melksham (open return, departing after 10am, with Senior railcard, done through GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)). If you come in on platforms 7 or 8, there's ramp access to "first floor" level which gets you to gate-line access to the Hammersmith & City/Circle line, after which there are lifts to the platforms.

If you arrive at any other platform it's a longer schlep around the concourse, but you get to lifts to said "first floor level" on the concourse side of the platform 13-4 gate-line, thereafter to Hammersmith & City as above.

At St Pancras, if I recall correctly, two lifts give you step-free access from tube platform to International Departures, with helpful signs directing you to the correct lifts (I think E & F) to do so.

At Paddington, whichever route you take/have to take if you do not arrive on platforms 7 or 8, I'd guess it's quite a bit further than getting to the bus stop on Praed Street, but at St Pancras it must be much easier than getting off a bus in Euston Road.

Was this mentioned in the consultation, or TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s response to it? More to the point, have any forum members seen this route recommended or  explained on any journeys they have taken via Paddington to St Pancras International? I only found out about the availability of "Euro High Saver returns" (Open returns valid for two months from nominated date for outward journey) from helpful Goring station staff, and worked the route out myself based on experience finding the new Hammersmith & City gate-lines after they were installed back in my working days when I had to travel up to London for meetings at venues best approached via that line.

Although I've done this route (using the tube) when travelling with my wife, who has some mobility problems not requiring any aids, I am not in a position to comment on how much worse overall it is than using a 205 bus. The fact it has not been mentioned so far in this thread implies that TfL did not mention it, nor investigate its suitability as a recommended alternative, which (if true) I find unimpressive for an integrated transport authority.

Of course, none of the above helps those seeking access between other London termini without the facilities at Paddington and St Pancras. TfL's emphasis on how much they sent communications to those resident along the route indicates an assumption that their buses are only used by locals, and that it did not occur to them that this service was also an important part of the cross-London connections for rail travellers on the national rail system. (On a route linking a number of termini stations, who'd have guessed? . Perhaps us poor yokels outside the M25 don't count.   

[ChrisB]

There's a lift also from platform 1 up to the overbridge at the open end of the station too, rather than the schlep around past platform 12....