SWR Exeter><Waterloo Services - Possible Reinstatement Of On-Train Catering

[whole diary]

[Bob_Blakey]

The principal point of my initial submission was that a lack of even a basic refreshment service on a journey of up to 3 hours 40 minutes shouldn't happen.

I realise that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) / SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) have bigger fish to fry at present but since the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have deigned to reply herewith their unredacted response:


Dear Mr Blakey,

Thank you for your email of 12 July, to the Department about the provision of
catering on South Western Railway’s (SWR’s) services between Exeter and
Waterloo. This has been forwarded to the Department’s Rail Correspondence
Hub for a reply.

We know that there is a long-held desire of travellers on this line for the
reinstatement of refreshments. As you are aware, SWR successfully
transferred into public ownership on 25 May 2025. There will be an
opportunity in due course for the new management of SWR under public
ownership to examine the provision of catering afresh, including on services
between Waterloo and Exeter. Any decision will be subject to a positive
financial case which balances the need of passengers and taxpayers.
Thank you once again for your correspondence and we hope this reply is
helpful.

Yours sincerely,
Rail Correspondence Hub



Which looks to me like a mixture of Statement Of The Bleeding Obvious and We Have Nothing Meaningful To Say On This Subject Just Now.

I think a straight up 'No chance, stop wasting our time' would at least have had the ring of honesty about it.

[grahame]

The principal point of my initial submission was that a lack of even a basic refreshment service on a journey of up to 3 hours 40 minutes shouldn't happen.

I realise that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) / SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) have bigger fish to fry at present but since the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have deigned to reply herewith their unredacted response

[snip - redacted in quoting]

Which looks to me like a mixture of Statement Of The Bleeding Obvious and We Have Nothing Meaningful To Say On This Subject Just Now.

I think a straight up 'No chance, stop wasting our time' would at least have had the ring of honesty about it.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), of course, used to have 5 hour journeys from Cardiff to Penzance with zero catering.   Those have (almost?) all been fixed by splitting the journeys at Exeter.  Be careful you don't encourage HMG to start splitting all trains at Salisbury - whereas in fact it might make sense for them to go on to Barnstaple and Plymouth via Tavistock.

[PhilWakely]

.......  Be careful you don't encourage HMG to start splitting all trains at Salisbury - whereas in fact it might make sense for them to go on to Barnstaple and Plymouth via Tavistock.

The cynic in me suggests the ultimate aim is for a core Waterloo to Salisbury service, with a few extended to Yeovil Junction - leaving GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (or its GBR^▸ (Great British Railways)(W) equivalent) to operate Exeter to Axminster, with a bus service serving Crewkerne. The track between Yeovil Junction and Axminster would remain in situ for Network Rail services and possible GBR(W) diversions when necessary 

[grahame]

.......  Be careful you don't encourage HMG to start splitting all trains at Salisbury - whereas in fact it might make sense for them to go on to Barnstaple and Plymouth via Tavistock.

The cynic in me suggests the ultimate aim is for a core Waterloo to Salisbury service, with a few extended to Yeovil Junction - leaving GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (or its GBR^▸ (Great British Railways)(W) equivalent) to operate Exeter to Axminster, with a bus service serving Crewkerne. The track between Yeovil Junction and Axminster would remain in situ for Network Rail services and possible GBR(W) diversions when necessary 

You are more cynical than I am - however what I seen read about is about offering a reliable service at reduced cost, and it doesn't go on to say "at current frequency", nor "at current service hours" nor "across the current network".   If anyone has seen those re-assuring words, please point them out to me.    There will always be times that services and networks need to be adjusted to meet changing needs, but without general re-assurances I would be concerned.    I note that there is concern over the future of the Cambrian Coast line in Tywyn
https://www.northwaleschronicle.co.uk/news/25363737.cambrian-coast-railway-line-fears-aired-public-meeting

[broadgage]

I can remember the days when Waterloo/Exeter trains had a proper buffet, and before that even a restaurant.
Then came new shorter trains, and catering was improved to a trolley, sometimes.
Catering was then further improved to nothing.

[grahame]

I can remember the days when Waterloo/Exeter trains had a proper buffet, and before that even a restaurant.
Then came new shorter trains, and catering was improved to a trolley, sometimes.
Catering was then further improved to nothing.

You also got faster and more frequent services, and a higher proportion of people making regional rather than long distance journeys and that to some extent gives paid to catering and sleeper services - but perhaps those reductions have gone to far.

I note that on a Kings Cross service headed for Edinburgh yesterday, I was served light lunch (before I got off at York) and on a Glasgow to Euston serices I was served a ploughman's high tea after I joined the train at Preston.  These are longer journeys.  On the Paddington to Weston-super-mare service I got a piece of flapjack and a Coffee.  On the Amsterdam to St Pancras service, I got a light breakfast.  Catering is proportionate to journey time. 

The 12 hours, 800 kms train from Ostersud to Gullivare was a whole different experience. Other longish distance trains in Sweden include a snack and coffee station which is looked after by the train manager, ticket checker, caterer and cleaner rolled into one.

[PhilWakely]

........  Catering is proportionate to journey time. 

So, on that basis, you are travelling up to The Smoke from Penzance..... What would you expect?

[broadgage]

........  Catering is proportionate to journey time. 

So, on that basis, you are travelling up to The Smoke from Penzance..... What would you expect?

I would expect a full hot buffet, available for almost all of the journey on every train, and a full restaurant on selected services.

What I would probably get, on a good day, is a trolley service for a small and random part of the journey, static in a random location.
On a bad day, nothing.

[grahame]

........  Catering is proportionate to journey time. 

So, on that basis, you are travelling up to The Smoke from Penzance..... What would you expect?

I would expect a full hot buffet, available for almost all of the journey on every train, and a full restaurant on selected services.

What I would probably get, on a good day, is a trolley service for a small and random part of the journey, static in a random location.
On a bad day, nothing.

But you have to consider the size of the whole-journey or nearly whole-journey market. The London to Penzance trains are far more intermediate in traffic characater ...

https://www.firstgreatwestern.info/PNZ.html
45,000 journeys per year Penzance to Paddington
(125 per day)

https://www.firstgreatwestern.info/EDB.html
Just shy of 1 million journeys per year Edinburgh to Kings Cross
(2850 per day)

[CyclingSid]

Different company. Yesterday I caught a Reading to Bournemouth Cross Country. Absolutely rammed (Southampton football match + half a dozen cruise ships). But instead of bicycle spaces, a manned buffet counter. First time that I could remember such "luxury".

[ChrisB]

Wow. Presumably one of the ex-Avanti Voyagers with their buffet counter left in-situ?

[eightonedee]

Different company. Yesterday I caught a Reading to Bournemouth Cross Country. Absolutely rammed (Southampton football match + half a dozen cruise ships). But instead of bicycle spaces, a manned buffet counter. First time that I could remember such "luxury".

My long memory going back to the introduction of Voyagers by Virgin over 20 years ago is that they started of with such a facility, but you had to be careful if you bought one of their all-day breakfast toasted sandwiches, with their volcanically hot fillings if eaten straightway on purchase....

[RichardB]

I can remember the days when Waterloo/Exeter trains had a proper buffet, and before that even a restaurant.
Then came new shorter trains, and catering was improved to a trolley, sometimes.
Catering was then further improved to nothing.

You also got faster and more frequent services, and a higher proportion of people making regional rather than long distance journeys and that to some extent gives paid to catering and sleeper services - but perhaps those reductions have gone to far.

I note that on a Kings Cross service headed for Edinburgh yesterday, I was served light lunch (before I got off at York) and on a Glasgow to Euston serices I was served a ploughman's high tea after I joined the train at Preston.  These are longer journeys.  On the Paddington to Weston-super-mare service I got a piece of flapjack and a Coffee.  On the Amsterdam to St Pancras service, I got a light breakfast.  Catering is proportionate to journey time. 

The 12 hours, 800 kms train from Ostersud to Gullivare was a whole different experience. Other longish distance trains in Sweden include a snack and coffee station which is looked after by the train manager, ticket checker, caterer and cleaner rolled into one.

What on earth is a "Ploughman's High Tea", Graham?    I guess that's what it was called on the Avanti menu........

[grahame]

What on earth is a "Ploughman's High Tea", Graham?    I guess that's what it was called on the Avanti menu........

Picture 8 at https://www.passenger.chat/t30560.html . May have been described as a "High tea or ploughman's" choice.

[RichardB]

What on earth is a "Ploughman's High Tea", Graham?    I guess that's what it was called on the Avanti menu........

Picture 8 at https://www.passenger.chat/t30560.html . May have been described as a "High tea or ploughman's" choice.

Thanks Graham.  That looks pretty good - I guess the sausage roll was hot.