07:00 Manchester - Euston

[whole diary]

[Worcester_Passenger]

From the December timetable change, this train will run to Euston empty : see https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/29/avanti-axed-7am-manchester-london-train-will-run-without-passengers.

You couldn't make it up.

[Mark A]

“If Avanti operates the service as empty coaching stock, [it] can be run more flexibly – delayed or rerouted – than a booked passenger service. This can assist with performance management and service recovery during disruption.”

Well of course the railway runs more to time without passengers. But...

If I were the secretary of state for transport I'd be planning an intervention this morning.

Mark

[rogerw]

I have read somewhere that Network Rail have withdrawn the authorisation for this passenger service because of congestion. However the stock still has to get to Euston

[Bob_Blakey]

.....Network Rail have withdrawn the authorisation for this passenger service.....

Surely that would be a decision for the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)?

[ChrisB]

It was.....not NR^» (Network Rail - home page)

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Manchester to London train to run without passengers


Avanti says the decision by the Office of Rail and Road is "disappointing"

A train service taking commuters from Manchester to London is to run empty for around five months following a decision by the rail regulator.

A decision by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)), means the 07:00 GMT service operated by Avanti West Coast from Manchester Piccadilly to London will still run but will only be used to carry staff from mid-December.

An Avanti West Coast spokesperson said they were "disappointed" with the decision, which would "clearly impact those customers who already use these services".

An ORR spokesperson said the decision was made on "robust evidence" from Network Rail to guard against possible service disruption on the West Coast Main Line.

Network Rail declined to comment.

The fast service, which gets to London in under two hours, will still set off from Manchester Piccadilly at 07:00 on four weekdays, but will not be available to commuters. It will, instead, ferry Avanti staff from Manchester to London when the new timetable launches on 15 December. The decision means the service could run for more than 100 journeys without paying passengers on board.

An Avanti West Coast spokesperson said they were disappointed with the ORR's decision not to grant access rights from December for four weekday services that they currently operated, including the 07:00 fast service from Manchester to London.

The ORR also required a Sunday service which currently runs from Holyhead to London to terminate at Crewe, they added. "This will clearly impact those customers who already use these services," they said. "However, we will still be delivering even more services across our network from the start of the December timetable, including further additional trains on our Liverpool route."

The spokesperson confirmed that the services being removed were:
07:00 GMT: Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston (Monday to Friday)
12:52 GMT: Blackpool North – London Euston (Monday to Friday)
09:39 GMT: London Euston – Blackpool North (Monday to Friday)
19:32 GMT: Chester – London Euston (Monday to Friday)
17:53 GMT: Holyhead – London Euston terminates at Crewe (Sunday)

An ORR spokesperson said: "Our decision on the Manchester-London service was based on robust evidence provided by Network Rail that adding services within 'firebreak' paths on the West Coast Main Line would have a detrimental impact on performance. We identified that this service would run in one of those paths. If Avanti operates the service as empty coaching stock (ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock)), ECS can be run more flexibly (delayed or re-routed) than a booked passenger service. This can assist with performance management and service recovery during disruption."

The ORR said Avanti was previously given the right to run this service from May 2025 for the duration of one timetable period only. This was on the basis that First Lumo's Stirling services were not operating at the time but the First Lumo services are expected to begin operating during the December 2025 timetable period.

The ORR added that under the new timetable, new open access train services, run by First Lumo to Stirling in Scotland, were due to start.

[ChrisB]

The ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) said Avanti was previously given the right to run this service from May 2025 for the duration of one timetable period only. This was on the basis that First Lumo's Stirling services were not operating at the time but the First Lumo services are expected to begin operating during the December 2025 timetable period.

The ORR added that under the new timetable, new open access train services, run by First Lumo to Stirling in Scotland, were due to start.

That says it all.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Regulator backtracks on 'ghost train' plan

Plans to ban passengers from a peak train service between Manchester and London have been abandoned after a U-turn by the government's rail safety regulator.

The Office of Road and Rail (ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)) reversed its decision to run the 07:00 GMT Avanti West Coast service from Manchester Piccadilly to London without passengers after a public backlash.

On Sunday the ORR announced only staff would be on board as of mid-December - citing concerns that allowing passengers to get on would "harm the overall performance" of the line.

But just over 24 hours later a ORR spokesperson said after listening to feedback it would give Network Rail and Avanti permission to continue running the service with passengers.

"On the basis of the information we have, we believe the running of this 7am service could have a negative impact on reliability and punctuality of services on the West Coast Main Line, but we recognise its importance and popularity and will support its continued operation," the ORR spokesperson continued.

The ORR has confirmed this U-turn only relates to the 07:00 GMT Manchester Piccadilly to Euston service and says four other services will run without passengers later this month.

They are:
- 12:52 GMT: Blackpool North – London Euston (Monday to Friday)
- 09:39 GMT: London Euston – Blackpool North (Monday to Friday)
- 19:32 GMT: Chester – London Euston (Monday to Friday)
- 17:53 GMT: Holyhead – London Euston terminates at Crewe (Sunday)

[ChrisB]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

- 12:52 GMT: Blackpool North – London Euston (Monday to Friday)
- 09:39 GMT: London Euston – Blackpool North (Monday to Friday)

Why would you run an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to Blackpool North if all you do is run it back ECS?

[IndustryInsider]

Route knowledge retention?

[Timmer]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):


Regulator backtracks on 'ghost train' plan

What a farce 

[Hafren]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

- 12:52 GMT: Blackpool North – London Euston (Monday to Friday)
- 09:39 GMT: London Euston – Blackpool North (Monday to Friday)

Why would you run an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to Blackpool North if all you do is run it back ECS?

AFAICT^▸ ('as far as I can tell') it's being removed completely; I've spot-checked one day and can't see a replacement ECS journey (but can't say I've looked thoroughly). I think the article's wording is just confusing the 'removed completely' trains with the 'ghost train'.

[Noggin]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):


Regulator backtracks on 'ghost train' plan

What a farce 

A cynic might wonder which MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)'s, BBC execs & senior civil servants were regular users of the train.

An uber-cynic might wonder if the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) had been set-up to fail on this one and fell for the bait!

[broadgage]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):


Regulator backtracks on 'ghost train' plan

What a farce 

A cynic might wonder which MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)'s, BBC execs & senior civil servants were regular users of the train.

An uber-cynic might wonder if the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) had been set-up to fail on this one and fell for the bait!

I know not to whom you could possibly be referring.