Bath Spa - call for electrification.

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Bath Spa is the second busiest 2-platform UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Station outside London - it's incredible how many people get off and on trains there which are calling at each platform ten times an hour, all day. And yet almost every train there is running under diesel power.  Wera Hobhouse, MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) for Bath said in Parliament

Dirty diesel trains are still running through Bath, polluting our heritage city.  As we look to improve our railways, we must include ways to make them cleaner and greener.  We need a bold, ambitious electrification plan to deliver this

That quoted on social media, here is a selection of feedback comments

The new IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) trains have modern diesel engines, and most of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))'s are now phased out, so not sure what the issue is with diesels polluting Bath

You can taste the Portsmouth to Cardiff diesels as they go past

Electric, Hydrogen powered and Solar powered trains are options for Great British Railways....

Bring back steam locomotives then !

So you also suggest electrifying the branch lines with routes going through Bath or closing them because that isn't economically viable?

Doh, Bath residents did all they could to stop the wires going through their beloved city.

Maybe you could also help with the increased pollution in the surrounding towns and villages that Bath caused with its “clean zone” - any ideas there? In reality, the problem has just been pushed out of bath and onto everyone else.
The UK already emits less than many developed countries. Until we have grid generation to support more electrification, we have to accept a small amount of pollution as the price to pay for public transport.
Currently the tax burden on the payer is higher than ever, and people are at breaking point - more tax won’t help and removing some trains won’t help either.
I think you need to reconsider this statement and avenue because it sounds utterly tone deaf and out of touch with the public.

[Image from here is not available to guests]

[anthony215]

Its long overdue wiring from filton and Chippenham to Bristol TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) and Parson street

[infoman]

Could new trains(a cheaper option?) on the London to Bristol route be run batteries between Bathampton and Oldfield Park?

[grahame]

Could new trains(a cheaper option?) on the London to Bristol route be run batteries between Bathampton and Oldfield Park?

If the trains have batteries for more substantial parts of their journeys, there may be potential to explore the option.  To my mind, though, having London to Bristol expresses equipped with batteries just for four or five miles doesn't feel economicaly sensible.

I quoted the comments on the original post to show just how complex the situation is, and how under informed some of the public are - no fault of their own; bright people just to experts in this complex world of railway provision and operation.  I am struck by the irony of road vehicles being required to be clean through Bath in a way that trains are not, and the comment about the smell from passing Cardiff -> Portsmouth trains. Perhaps those (and the short runs on the same line) are a case for batteries initially, rather than the London trains for which I suggest that full electrification might be the better solution.

[Timmer]

I did laugh at the ‘you can taste the Cardiff to Portsmouth diesels as they go past’. Oh please!!  That’s nothing compared to the original Valenta engines on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) or the various other diesel locos that used to pass through Bath such as 37s, 47s and 50s when I was growing up. Happy days 

[Mark A]

Could new trains(a cheaper option?) on the London to Bristol route be run batteries between Bathampton and Oldfield Park?

If the trains have batteries for more substantial parts of their journeys, there may be potential to explore the option.  To my mind, though, having London to Bristol expresses equipped with batteries just for four or five miles doesn't feel economicaly sensible.

I quoted the comments on the original post to show just how complex the situation is, and how under informed some of the public are - no fault of their own; bright people just to experts in this complex world of railway provision and operation.  I am struck by the irony of road vehicles being required to be clean through Bath in a way that trains are not, and the comment about the smell from passing Cardiff -> Portsmouth trains. Perhaps those (and the short runs on the same line) are a case for batteries initially, rather than the London trains for which I suggest that full electrification might be the better solution.

Below-the-fold comments on the social media posts of politicians are often toxic. Stepping away from the exceptionalism that prompts people to think of the railway through Bath as though it's different from any other stretch of line, people seem to have settled into being ok with the fact that electrification of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s rail system has been increasingly  badly handled. In England, no rolling programme of electrication, something that lowers costs and builds/maintains skills. In the west country we've ended up saddled with the sub-optimal situation where we have expensive dual-fuel trains and electrification that doesn't extend to Oxford, Bristol or Swansea. We're building an entire new railway whose trains will run on diesel and without so much as putting in foundations for the electrification that it will need. This approach really curtails opportunities for the railway to excel in what it does. Diesel exhaust from railway trains is the smell of a legacy transport system, and it should really be fading fast by now.

How to pay for it? Day to day we already are, in terms of increased overheads, and not of the electrification variety.

Mark

[TonyK]

It is ridiculous that we have so many miles of unelectrified railway still, especially when you consider the previous plans that were shelved. In the case of Bath, it isn't as though the preparation hasn't been done - tunnels, bridges and anything else in the was were all cleared ready for the wires to come, as far as the tunnels at St Annes. The IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) all have pantographs at the ready. Extending the OHLE^▸ (Over-Head Line Equipment (electrification via catenary)) from Thingummy to the far side of Keynsham should be doable on a series of overnight stints. Sydney Gardens might even benefit from not having so much diesel traffic. If not, that could be left without wires but with a need to have the horn sounding a warning until the train can use the leccy again. Alternatively, a bit of extra cash could be spent on something slightly less out of keeping with the Georgian splendour than the standard steelwork.

[John D]

I understand the old station footbridge at Chippenham is too low, and being listed or heritage status probably can't be taken away.  But these days there are special lifting and jacking techniques so can probably be lifted and riser spacers added.  Then just add a couple of extra steps at the bottom of each staircase.

As far as I am aware there is no remaining obstructions between Bathampton Junction and the K&A aqueduct either.  Clearly doing this would help BEMUs as they could change mode away from the junction where they need to accelerate.   I write this as I have just discovered East Midland new 810s cannot work to Corby on electric because they pass an engine warm up beacon as wires don't extend far enough.

But with 5 trains an hour (sometimes 6 if including freight) Bath really ought to be a section that gets urgent electrification.  Especially as Hitachi seems unable to keep all IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) engines operational.  Although I do not know why so many fuel pumps seem to be low quality and failing.

I have heard Hitachi are self certifying defects, and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has option to audit the defect list, but I wonder if they actually do it (as in send legal and audit staff armed with spirit levels to check seat sag, microbe swabs to check cleanliness of edge of windows, gas analysers to check exhausts and toilet smells etc.  Hitachi are paid a lot, and don't really seem to fully deliver diesel mode and passenger comfort on IETs.

[grahame]

Hitachi are paid a lot, and don't really seem to fully deliver diesel mode and passenger comfort on IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)).

I have to have some sympathy for Hitachi, though.  There's far, far more diesel running than was planned / expected - these trains should be running under electric OHLE^▸ (Over-Head Line Equipment (electrification via catenary)) power to Bath, Bristol, Oxford, Port Talbot and Swansea.

[Noggin]

Hitachi are paid a lot, and don't really seem to fully deliver diesel mode and passenger comfort on IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)).

I have to have some sympathy for Hitachi, though.  There's far, far more diesel running than was planned / expected - these trains should be running under electric OHLE^▸ (Over-Head Line Equipment (electrification via catenary)) power to Bath, Bristol, Oxford, Port Talbot and Swansea.

Yes, at the end of the day, Hitachi delivered on a byzantine spec/contract that many felt defied the laws of physics, out of a new plant, in a new country and put up with the changes when Grayling decided that the electrification of Bristol and Oxford would be postponed.

I suspect that some of the issues like the seat padding and the fuel pumps are the result of initial penny-pinching and contracts that make replacement at Hitachi's costs, so the latter is incentivised to follow the letter of the contract rather than customer comfort. Does anyone know if Hitachi are actually making money on the original DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) contract, or the First Group 802 follow-on for that matter?

And as for Bath, yes, I remember well the NIMBY's and the costly measures that had to be deployed at places like Sydney Gardens.

[Red Squirrel]

Protecting the heritage of Bath is not, by any stretch of the imagination, NIMBYism. Thankfully, through dialogue and compromise a good solution was reached. That it wasn't implement was not the fault of those who quite rightly seek to protect Bath's unique beauty.

[Bob_Blakey]

Travelled past Sydney Gardens last Saturday on a diverted London-bound IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)). If the good burghers of Bath really cared about the local environment as much as they claim how come they haven't forced their council to immediately remove the graffiti that I observed?

[Red Squirrel]

Travelled past Sydney Gardens last Saturday on a diverted London-bound IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)). If the good burghers of Bath really cared about the local environment as much as they claim how come they haven't forced their council to immediately remove the graffiti that I observed?

I don't think you can really compare a major investment programme - electrifying the railway - with a minor act of vandalism. The wiring through Bath (when, hopefully, it happens) will be a prominent feature for decades. It is important to get it right. It would have been a very serious act of vandalism to use the standard massive wiring gantries on a prominent route through a World Heritage City.

How should they go about 'forcing' their council to clean up a mess that the council didn't create? Bath's council would be unusual if it had much spare cash lying around.

[matth1j]

Don't mention the duck pond
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cderr5zy0jno

[Oxonhutch]

[snip]

 It would have been a very serious act of vandalism to use the standard massive wiring gantries on a prominent route through a World Heritage City.

[snip]

Could our correspondent from Goring inform us please if the indignation from the good burghers of the Gap has died down over the wiring of their section of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).