Advance fares - hardly the most robust offering

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Later this week ... my trip ...

Departs Melksham at 16:39 and arrives in Swindon (Wilts) at 17:06.
Departs Swindon (Wilts) at 18:04 and arrives in London Paddington at 19:01.
Departs London Paddington at 19:18 and arrives in Stratford (London) at 19:36.
Departs Stratford (London) at 19:43 and arrives in Harwich International at 21:00.

Good price - but - WHY sell me a ticket that has me waiting nearly an hour at Swindon, then is followed by tight changes at Paddington and Stratford?   Would it not be logical to offer an earlier train into Paddington, with more leeway in crossing London?

[Ralph Ayres]

I suspect the answer is that all the interchanges meet the minimum time laid down so if you do miss a connection you can use the next train at no extra cost. There is an "add extra time" option on the NRE^▸ (National Rail Enquiries) website and possibly others, but it only allows time bands to be selected rather than going in to each step yourself and manually tweaking it, say to one train later. I'd hope it wouldn't add extra time to that Swindon change but I wouldn't bank on it!

[grahame]

I suspect the answer is that all the interchanges meet the minimum time laid down so if you do miss a connection you can use the next train at no extra cost. There is an "add extra time" option on the NRE^▸ (National Rail Enquiries) website and possibly others, but it only allows time bands to be selected rather than going in to each step yourself and manually tweaking it, say to one train later. I'd hope it wouldn't add extra time to that Swindon change but I wouldn't bank on it!

I suspect you are right - but it would be more robust for them to front load it ... also less concerning for me (the customer) making a final public transport transfer onto the 23:00 ferry at Harwich International

[grahame]

The 16:39 from Melksham ran on time ... then an hour to wait in Swindon for the 18:04 to Paddington. Good job I am "robust" as at around 17:30 that flagged up as "delayed".  No indication why, no indication by how much ... and so a quick trip to the staffed counter where they told me it hadn't yet left Gloucester and to just jump on the next Paddington train - 17:41.  Duly done; that was on time but thank goodness I had the knowledge of systems and journey. 

As I went downstairs at Paddington, first train in a few seconds was a Shenfield and excellent time made to Stratford ... the outbound Greater Anglia platform bleak / too few seats and just a couple of bus shelters; so many trains that the Harwich train wasn't even on the board.  No coffee stand on the platform; staff backed by RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector, or Retail Price Index, depending on context) checking all tickets.    Busy train joined for Harwich; lots of calls for a boat train and by the time we got to HPQ just a handful of us left across 10 carriages.

Noting the train was 3+2 seating with a corridor / pathway so narrow that I couldn't get through wearing my pack - first time for that problem ...

[IndustryInsider]

Good price - but - WHY sell me a ticket that has me waiting nearly an hour at Swindon, then is followed by tight changes at Paddington and Stratford?   Would it not be logical to offer an earlier train into Paddington

Could the advance ticket quotas have sold out at the good price on the earlier trains?

[grahame]

Good price - but - WHY sell me a ticket that has me waiting nearly an hour at Swindon, then is followed by tight changes at Paddington and Stratford?   Would it not be logical to offer an earlier train into Paddington

Could the advance ticket quotas have sold out at the good price on the earlier trains?

Maybe ... but the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website [new] journey planner didn't offer any alternatives at any price.  I suspect that with a less frequent service at both ends of the journey, it skewed it towards the later trains in "the middle".   Some of our regulars from Melksham are aware that if they want to get to London earlier than the 10:02 but not pay £££ for the 08:02, they should split at Chippenham,  and use part of their saving for a coffee at the Hungry Hare.

[ChrisB]

The 16:39 from Melksham ran on time ... then an hour to wait in Swindon for the 18:04 to Paddington. Good job I am "robust" as at around 17:30 that flagged up as "delayed".  No indication why, no indication by how much ... and so a quick trip to the staffed counter where they told me it hadn't yet left Gloucester

Glasd they provided an answer to the meaning of "delayed" - train not moving yet towards destination & until it does, we are unable to work out an estimate of the amount of delay....just still getting later basically.

[JohnM]

Some of our regulars from Melksham are aware that if they want to get to London earlier than the 10:02 but not pay £££ for the 08:02, they should split at Chippenham,  and use part of their saving for a coffee at the Hungry Hare.

I'll try to remember that - thanks

[Fourbee]

The 16:39 from Melksham ran on time ... then an hour to wait in Swindon for the 18:04 to Paddington. Good job I am "robust" as at around 17:30 that flagged up as "delayed".  No indication why, no indication by how much ... and so a quick trip to the staffed counter where they told me it hadn't yet left Gloucester

Glasd they provided an answer to the meaning of "delayed" - train not moving yet towards destination & until it does, we are unable to work out an estimate of the amount of delay....just still getting later basically.

"delayed" can also go to "cancelled" of course , so if/when it starts moving. Personally I think "delayed" can impart a lot of false hope.

[ChrisB]

Yes, this is so.

[IndustryInsider]

Good price - but - WHY sell me a ticket that has me waiting nearly an hour at Swindon, then is followed by tight changes at Paddington and Stratford?   Would it not be logical to offer an earlier train into Paddington

Could the advance ticket quotas have sold out at the good price on the earlier trains?

Maybe ... but the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website [new] journey planner didn't offer any alternatives at any price.  I suspect that with a less frequent service at both ends of the journey, it skewed it towards the later trains in "the middle".

Looking at the same journey next week, on the GWR website and elsewhere, it seems to default to connecting you onto the 17:12 from Swindon and giving you the wait at Stratford instead.

That suggests very much to me that it was quota related on the day you travelled and that the quota for advance tickets on the 17:12 had been reached, but there was availability on the 18:04, which, as it meets minimum connection times, was suggested instead.

[grahame]

Looking at the same journey next week, on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website and elsewhere, it seems to default to connecting you onto the 17:12 from Swindon and giving you the wait at Stratford instead.

That suggests very much to me that it was quota related on the day you travelled and that the quota for advance tickets on the 17:12 had been reached, but there was availability on the 18:04, which, as it meets minimum connection times, was suggested instead.

It could be ... but with so much "intelligence" built into system algorithms these days on top of a fare system which is complex and opaque, it's very hard indeed to know - just having to guess based on the evidence provided and be aware to take a special look each time the journey is made.

Arriving in Hoek van Holland and taking the Rotterdam Metro into Schiedam Central, I noted that a sign in English that all I had to do was swipe in with a credit card/ debit card and swipe out again at the other end - no physical ticket needed.  Now I'm naturally enquiring and careful by took a quick decision that, yes, I would do that and such is becoming much more prevalent.   

But would I have swiped in at Melksham and out again at Harwich International without knowing the amount charged up front?  Hell no - I don't trust the system to give me the best (or even a decent, or appropriate) deal,  and in any case where it's "per train" how is it going to know which train you were on, or how are you to know which is today's best value train?

[IndustryInsider]

That’s why there’s no ability to do that at present, and tap on/off is generally only available in metropolitan areas.

On the flip side, I suppose the system could have just ‘kept quiet’ about availability on the 18:04, just to be on the safe side, if the 17:12’s (and other trains after it) have reached their quota…and not offer the good price at all?  There would be no way of knowing that it had!

[grahame]

That’s why there’s no ability to do that at present, and tap on/off is generally only available in metropolitan areas.

On the flip side, I suppose the system could have just ‘kept quiet’ about availability on the 18:04, just to be on the safe side, if the 17:12’s (and other trains after it) have reached their quota…and not offer the good price at all?  There would be no way of knowing that it had!

No easy way, alas ... this has reminded me to follow up on the other aspect here - if I need to arrive in London for 10:30 - next  Thursday as an example - I am offered



Paying personally, wow, £112 is a big "gulp".    However, from Chippenham:



and £55 - with an extra fiver or so for a single from Melksham to Chippenham - much more affordable.

And telling the booking engine that I want to travel from Melksham to arrive by 10:30 does NOT give me the lower cost option ... is still suggests I need to pay £112, and it puts a "cheapest" flag alongside that in the result set too.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, split ticketing is a whole different discussion altogether.  And you won’t find me arguing with anyone who thinks it’s mad!