British Airways chief comment on UK rail fares

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

“The other thing is the lack of options to travel around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), because of things like rail networks which are fragmented, the lack of [rail] passes – the lack of a kind of curation of tourists is a big issue.”

“We end up with tourism concentrated in places like London and Edinburgh, but the rest of the economy doesn’t get the benefit of it."

My first thought was the likes of the Britrail pass, but that doesn't help so much with one-off trips, does it? Also, the intending traveller will be railcard-less, so, exposed to the full howling madness of the UK's rail pricing and for good measure will be unfamiliar with the system.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/07/ba-ceo-sean-doyle-aviation-taxes-rail-costs-stunting-uk-growth

Also, fun fact, Britrail's page on the Southwest pass, like their other regional pages, if you're familiar with the Cornish Main Line, you might recognise the structure, but not because it's on the Cornish Main Line (which does allegedly have nine miles of viaducts in total, but that ain't one of them...)

https://www.britrail.com/britrail-passes/britrail-south-west-pass/

Mark

[grahame]

“The other thing is the lack of options to travel around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), because of things like rail networks which are fragmented, the lack of [rail] passes – the lack of a kind of curation of tourists is a big issue.”

“We end up with tourism concentrated in places like London and Edinburgh, but the rest of the economy doesn’t get the benefit of it."

Yep - I agree with him.  There are pockets of good ... and huge numbers of tourists will always make for the "Honey Pots" of York,  and Stratford-on-Avon.  I am involved in a number of tourist groups on social media - most of them for people already with a rail bias - but questions like "is 25 minutes enough to change from New Street to Moor Street long enough, and how do I reserve a seat from Moor Street" - example posted yesterday - indicate some of the issues.  You can guess, I suspect, the total day's journey that was posted ... those honey pots.

This is not a UK / unique problem, though; hard to quantify the data but you see some of the same across Europe.   

[ChrisB]

- but questions like "is 25 minutes enough to change from New Street to Moor Street long enough, and how do I reserve a seat from Moor Street"

Yes it is - if you know where you are going, it is doable in 10mins, but allow 15 at least if you don't. The signage - look up - is actually quite good now. And no reservations on any train from Moor Street to Stratford. (in case anyone reads this & doesn't know)

[Mark A]

Despite which, and despite knowing the way, last time I walked it, I managed to take a rather roundabout way between the two, a route that I recall involved, for good measure, steps. I don't suppose the monorail from Merry Hill shopping centre, long dismantled, is in storage somewhere...

Mark

[IndustryInsider]

Yes it is - if you know where you are going, it is doable in 10mins, but allow 15 at least if you don't. The signage - look up - is actually quite good now.

Last time I did it I walked under the shopping centre through a very depressing scene of dozens of homeless people, a few of whom were clearly under the influence of zombie drugs making it look a little bit like Philadelphia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XHoBsNgKm8

Is that the official route?

[ChrisB]

If you mean under the underpass (exit New Street towards Bullring, cross road to Boots, turn left & follow the underpass to Moor Street, turn left again across Moor Street Queensway to Moor Street station) - then yes - the council needs to brighten the area up such that the homeless find somewhere quieter/darker or better found a home.

During opening hours, pass through the Bullring itself - enter at Boots, exit at Moor Street, dropping down a floor in the process. Takes longer, but nicer. Still doable in 25 mins that way though.

[grahame]

- but questions like "is 25 minutes enough to change from New Street to Moor Street long enough, and how do I reserve a seat from Moor Street"

Yes it is - if you know where you are going, it is doable in 10mins, but allow 15 at least if you don't. The signage - look up - is actually quite good now. And no reservations on any train from Moor Street to Stratford. (in case anyone reads this & doesn't know)

Advice to that effect was given on the thread in question ... including a note that the service runs about hourly, so if you miss one, just catch the next.  I decided not to add comment that Birmingham might be worth a look ;-)

[Mark A]

I think what I did was cross the road outside Moor Street to the north side of the underpass that's above the tunnels to New Street - St Martin's Passage - which involves steps (but ramps provided and avoids the path that accompanies the bus route beneath the structures, of which I am not fond, in the same way that I was not fond, long ago in a world that didn't do Sunday trains, of the trip in to Birmingham on the bus, on my own, to see the film 'Alien' when it first came out. Bus trip in: fine. Film: scary. Bus trip home again: scary 'cos of the muti-player drunk fight that broke out at Halesowen between the people on the bus and the people boarding from the queue there).

Mark

[Richard Fairhurst]

“The other thing is the lack of options to travel around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), because of things like rail networks which are fragmented, the lack of [rail] passes – the lack of a kind of curation of tourists is a big issue.”

I'm intrigued by the new Northern Explorer ticket: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/tickets/northern-explorer

Basically a flat-rate, go-anywhere ticket for the Northern network. Northern is, of course, a DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)-owned operator. I wonder if this is a very tentative experiment in go-anywhere ticketing given the success of such tickets in mainland Europe.

[rogerw]

A number of rover tickets cover the area and seem to offer better value. Multi day tickets are flexible e.g. 3 days in 8

[Mark A]

Usefully, Northern's Explorer tickets aren't time-limited on weekdays to off-peak only. Presumably that restriction on the National Railway's rover tickets is a rather uninspiring attempt to avoid said tickets being used to abstract fares income from full fare travel.

Mark

[Witham Bobby]

“The other thing is the lack of options to travel around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), because of things like rail networks which are fragmented, the lack of [rail] passes – the lack of a kind of curation of tourists is a big issue.”

“We end up with tourism concentrated in places like London and Edinburgh, but the rest of the economy doesn’t get the benefit of it."

Yep - I agree with him.  There are pockets of good ... and huge numbers of tourists will always make for the "Honey Pots" of York,  and Stratford-on-Avon.  I am involved in a number of tourist groups on social media - most of them for people already with a rail bias - but questions like "is 25 minutes enough to change from New Street to Moor Street long enough, and how do I reserve a seat from Moor Street" - example posted yesterday - indicate some of the issues.  You can guess, I suspect, the total day's journey that was posted ... those honey pots.

This is not a UK / unique problem, though; hard to quantify the data but you see some of the same across Europe.   

What happened to the Marylebone - Stratford upon Avon direct trains?  A service that obviously would  be very useful for tourist visitors

[Mark A]

There are now no through trains inbound to Stratford-on-Avon from Marylebone.

Heading for London, a train departs Stratford on Avon at 21:33 (that sounds too early for people leaving a performance). It reaches  Marylebone at four minutes to midnight, so, around two and a half hours - it calls at most stations on the way. Today, it's a 2 carriage 165.

Mark

[ChrisB]

There used to be a connection off the 2314 ex-SAV to Banbury that reached PAD^▸ (Paddington (London) station) just after 0200. Unfortunately, it appears that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has got to that connection and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have broken the BAN connection by now leaving 30 mins before the arrival from SAV, and also removing the OXF^▸ (Oxford station)-RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context) leg completely.

[IndustryInsider]

Chiltern really have abandoned Stratford-Upon-Avon.

If you look back to when Thames Trains used to run the trains from Paddington (using summer 1998 as an example) there were weekday direct services from Paddington at 09:18, 11:18, 13:48, 16:48, 18:48 (19:03 on Fridays), and coming back at 06:54, 11:55, 14:10, 17:32, 20:00 and the late one at 23:15.

Fast forward ten years when Chiltern were operating it and there were direct weekday services from Marylebone at 07:23, 08:54, 10:54, 12:54, 14:54, 16:36, 17:41 and 19:33.  Return trains at 06:46, 07:36, 09:42, 11:40, 13:40, 15:40, 17:40, and 19:43...with a late RSC connection to Paddington off of a 23:00 Oxford service.  An excellent service, though it was better in many ways when Thames Trains operated it as it linked the major tourist hotspots of London and Stratford with the other ones of Oxford and Windsor (via Slough).

Fast forward another ten years (nearly), and in terms of direct trains...nothing!  Apart from that token operationally convenient 2-car at 21:33 which returns the train used on the shuttle service all day back to London.