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ChrisB
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« on: August 06, 2026, 17:25:12 » |
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(British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)[/url" target="_blank"> There's major disruption on railways in northern England after a power failure in Manchester affected a communications centre
There is widespread rail disruption across much of northern England due to an electrical failure, with customers facing long delays or cancellations.
Here's what we know:
The disruption has been caused by a power failure in the Ardwick area which affected the Manchester Rail Operating Centre, which houses all the controls to safely operate the railway
Our transport correspondent Katy Austin says there was a delay to the back-up supply kicking in
National Rail says the areas directly affected are Greater Manchester and the north-west of England
Rail companies impacted include Avanti West Coast, East Midlands, Northern, TransPennine Express, London
Northwestern Railway and Transport for Wales
National Rail previously advised the Midlands was impacted by the fault, but has since removed the region from its notice
What we don't know:
We don't know what has caused the electrical fault at Manchester Rail Operating Centre, or the severity of it
National Rail say disruption is expected until "the end of the day" but we don't yet know if it could last even longer From Northern in an email - Important update: Do Not Travel in Greater Manchester or the North West
A power supply failure in the Manchester area has had a significant impact on all rail services across Greater Manchester, Liverpool and the wider North West.
As a result, there is a Do Not Travel notice in place on most routes for the remainder of today.
What does this mean for your journey?
Northern and other train operators’ services across the North West are unable to operate as planned, and customers should expect cancellations and service alterations. There may also be knock-on effects elsewhere across the Northern network.
What should I do?
Please do not travel today if your journey involves the North West area.
No alternative transport is available.
If you are currently travelling, please check the latest information before continuing your journey.
If you have a ticket for travel on an affected route today, it will be valid for travel tomorrow.
Customers planning to travel tomorrow should check before they travel, as some services may still be affected.
For the latest service information, please visit our service updates page or use the Northern app.
We are sorry for the impact this may have on your journey and thank you for your patience while teams work to restore services.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2026, 18:11:51 » |
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Power failure, and as one would expect with it being the railway, back up generators failed.
Hence total chaos.
Good luck to anyone caught up in it.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2026, 19:01:35 » |
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So much for Andy Burnham having the power to run the whole country from Manchester. Sorry for my sarcastic, personal opinion only, post. CfN▸ .  |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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bobm
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2026, 19:09:03 » |
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But he’s not in Manchester, he’s on holiday “overseas”.  |
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2026, 20:15:43 » |
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But he’s not in Manchester, he’s on holiday “overseas”. Louise Haigh's in charge but apparently she's not answering her phone  |
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JohnM
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2026, 20:25:37 » |
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2026, 21:20:54 » |
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Please accept my apologies for introducing an element of levity to this topic.  |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2026, 05:26:06 » |
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Profound words, beautifully put with great insight!
"We've got to really understand what's gone wrong here, because clearly something has and we've got to make sure we investigate that thoroughly to understand why things haven't restored as we would have expected," said Chris Wright, Route Director NW at Network Rail.
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Electric train
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2026, 06:58:17 » |
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I do not know the specifics of what back up power systems failed to operate correctly when the local DNO▸ supply was interrupted at this Regional Control Centre (ROC▸ ).
These ROC's normally have 2 independent supplies from the DNO, (in much the same way as a hospital). There are automatic change over panel / load transfer switches, these can take between 2 to 10 seconds to change over. Also there diesel generators which take up to 30 seconds to come on load.
The time delays are to cover for brown outs (A brownout is a drop in electrical voltage. Lights dim and devices keep running on less power. Power companies use them on purpose to stop a total blackout. Bad weather or high demand can also cause them by accident). There are UPS's to cover for the time for the back-ups to come on line, because of the electrical load at these ROC and the fact there are backups the UPS's are sized to hold the full load for 2 to 5 minute's the UPS's are also used in normal service to condition the power supplies to the signalling systems.
(This from my limited knowledge of signalling systems) Railway signalling systems are designed to fail safe, in the event of an unstable power supply the signalling system will revert to Danger. Outlining Interlockings rely on data links back to the ROC whilst there are automatic signals there are many that rely on "talking" to the ROC if the comms is lost the local interlocking will go to danger, it is possible that many of these interlockings required a site visit by a signalling tech to reset them.
Also any local to the ROC track side signalling systems that are feed from the ROC, and by local this could be a large area going out several miles, the electric equipment for points, track circuits and axel counters have a "crowbar device" in there internal power supplies, these crowbars operate and short circuit blowing the integral power supply fuses when the power supply goes unstable which is quite common during a brownout, this will place the signals at danger (Red) or they go dark, a train driver regards a dark signal as danger (Red) signal.
From my working life dealing with a number of large signalling centres covering the SE Railway area what happened at Manchester is the worst nightmare for the NR» Route power and signalling Engineers; it is something that the systems have their single points of failure identified and where possible designed out where this is not possible / practical to do process to manage the risk are in place and the systems are maintained and tested for such events.
But at the end of the day these are large complex systems with a number of single points of failure.
The NR Route and NR HQ▸ will have already been working on what the root cause of yesterdays failure was, and in my previous roll at NR I would have been on a number of conference calls today and next week looking at the lessons learnt and putting action plans in place with the maintainers to inspect and test similar systems in my former area
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"The real source of danger, and the only one which there is any hope of removing, is in a complication of imperfections in a great number of the mechanical parts of the system"
Isambard Kingdom Brunel
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2026, 07:38:42 » |
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Profound words, beautifully put with great insight!
"We've got to really understand what's gone wrong here, because clearly something has and we've got to make sure we investigate that thoroughly to understand why things haven't restored as we would have expected," said Chris Wright, Route Director NW at Network Rail.
Another 'Industry Leader' with a degree in 'The Statement Of The Bleeding Obvious'. Also 'Lessons Must Be Learnt' would have taken up less space. |
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broadgage
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2026, 11:35:19 » |
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Have they not heard of UPS units ?
Such units provide back up power, usually from batteries, without any perceptible break.
Run time is typically a few minutes, with a diesel generator for longer failures, the run time is then only limited by fuel supplies.
I also fail to see why it took so long to change from one DNO▸ supply to an alternative DNO supply. I would expect changeover within a few seconds.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2026, 19:57:32 » |
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How long does it take for signals to fail red? Seconds.
It took 90 of those for the backups to kick in. That's too long for all signals just to change again back to what they were before interruption.
Then something else blew which may not directly be owing to the initial power failure & needed investigation.
After all that, all they could do was switch it off & on again & do a full reset. Now all staff & stock is out of place.
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2026, 04:09:36 » |
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A properly specified and installed UPS would have supplied power, without perceptible interruption, for 5 minutes or more.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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Electric train
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2026, 06:39:34 » |
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How long does it take for signals to fail red? Seconds.
It took 90 of those for the backups to kick in. That's too long for all signals just to change again back to what they were before interruption.
Then something else blew which may not directly be owing to the initial power failure & needed investigation.
After all that, all they could do was switch it off & on again & do a full reset. Now all staff & stock is out of place.
It can actually take less than 90 milli seconds to cause electronic railway signalling systems a problem, that's why electronic systems have UPS. I would expect by now the (Power) Distribution team in Manchester and the Route will know what failed to operate correctly when the DNO▸ power failed |
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"The real source of danger, and the only one which there is any hope of removing, is in a complication of imperfections in a great number of the mechanical parts of the system"
Isambard Kingdom Brunel
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