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Great Western Coffee Shop > All across the Great Western territory > The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom > Six-hour train services between London and Stirling running with no toilets
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Author Topic: Six-hour train services between London and Stirling running with no toilets  (Read 1114 times)
Chris from Nailsea
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« on: August 07, 2026, 20:33:21 »
From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Six-hour train services between London and Stirling running with no toilets

[Image from here is not available to guests]
Trains have been stopping for longer at stations so passengers can use the toilets on platforms - Image © Alstom/Ian Nightingale

A train operator is running services lasting more than five-and-a-half hours despite having no toilets available on board.

The Lumo trains run on the West Coast Main Line, covering the new 417-mile (671km) route between Stirling and London Euston.

Lumo, which is owned by FirstGroup, first warned about a "fault" with the toilets on a service from Stirling to Crewe on Saturday.  Some services have since been stopping for longer at stations such as Preston to allow passengers to get off and use toilets on platforms.

A Lumo spokesperson said: "We have been experiencing some issues with the reliability of some of our toilet facilities onboard our West Coast services."  They added that they were working closely with rail company Alstom, which refurbished the carriages used by Lumo, to "rectify the issue".

An Alstom spokesperson said: "We recognise that this falls short of the standard fare-paying passengers should expect, particularly on long-distance services.  Working closely with Lumo, we are reviewing the entire fleet position to reduce the risk of repeat failures, improve overnight servicing checks, and ensure toilet availability is restored and maintained wherever possible on the operator's West Coast route."

The 06:11 departure from London Euston on Friday, which was affected, ran with a 58-minute delay and terminated at Motherwell, North Lanarkshire.  Passengers were told their tickets would be accepted on ScotRail services.

Liberal Democrat transport spokesperson Olly Glover posted on social media: "Is Lumo attempting to become the Ryanair of the rails?"

Train operators in Britain are not legally required to provide onboard toilets.

Lumo operates its West Coast services with refurbished Class 222 Meridian trains. These are also used by East Midlands Railway, which has also suffered toilet faults with its fleet.

Lumo also runs services on the East Coast Main Line, connecting London King's Cross with Edinburgh, Glasgow and Falkirk. It operates on an open access basis, meaning it sets its own fares, takes on all revenue risk and receives no taxpayer-funded subsidies. It is not affected by the government's renationalisation of all remaining franchised train services in Britain.
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William Huskisson MP▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
ChrisB
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2026, 20:35:39 »
And we thought that GWR▸ (Great Western Railway) had problems with Hitachi sets....
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2026, 20:39:46 »
Did we?  Please don't encourage Coffee Shop forum member 'broadgage'.  Wink Cheesy Grin
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William Huskisson MP▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
broadgage
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2026, 21:23:21 »
I thought that MOST forum members agreed with  the official line that IETs▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) are so much better than the HSTs▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) that they replaced, that no one wants a buffet, and even short formations are not really a problem because covid has reduced passenger numbers.
And that only a few members shared my views.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2026, 21:45:00 »
Thanks for posting, broadgage.  Wink  Cheesy  Grin
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William Huskisson MP▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2026, 08:59:13 »
It does not appear to have been made clear that Lumo have stated categorically that none of their Stirling trains enter service without at least some working WC▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority), was Wiltshire County Council until March 2009)'s and the issue seems to be one of 'mid-journey' failure.
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broadgage
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2026, 09:51:17 »
Toilets on trains should be a mature technology and providing reliably working examples should therefore be simple.
I wonder in what way hitachi have over-complicated the design and added extra points of failure ?
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2026, 10:23:18 »
Quote from: Bob_Blakey on August 14, 2026, 08:59:13
It does not appear to have been made clear that Lumo have stated categorically that none of their Stirling trains enter service without at least some working WC▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority), was Wiltshire County Council until March 2009)'s and the issue seems to be one of 'mid-journey' failure.

Quote from: broadgage on August 14, 2026, 09:51:17
Toilets on trains should be a mature technology and providing reliably working examples should therefore be simple.
I wonder in what way hitachi have over-complicated the design and added extra points of failure ?

It should be that when [tolilets / trains] enter service for a day's work, it should be highly, highly unusual for them to fail during their diagram.  That does not seem to be the case with Lumo toilets or Transwilts trains.
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Mark A
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2026, 10:25:36 »
To give them credit, using the loos on the Class 80x, the door locks are good. Simple, mechanical, effective, robust & quick to use.

Mark
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rogerw
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2026, 11:23:40 »
Just for clarity, the LUMO service does not use IETs▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) but refurbished Class 222 (meridians) from EMR» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains - about)
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JayMac
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2026, 13:09:22 »
Quote from: broadgage on August 14, 2026, 09:51:17
Toilets on trains should be a mature technology and providing reliably working examples should therefore be simple.
I wonder in what way hitachi have over-complicated the design and added extra points of failure ?

Lumo are using Bombardier built Class 222s on the Stirling services. Not Hitachi Class 8xx.
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2026, 13:36:27 »
Quote from: Bob_Blakey on August 14, 2026, 08:59:13
It does not appear to have been made clear that Lumo have stated categorically that none of their Stirling trains enter service without at least some working WC▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority), was Wiltshire County Council until March 2009)'s and the issue seems to be one of 'mid-journey' failure.

And that's rubbish anyway! Their early morning 0615? to Stirling left London with NO working toilets the other day - Lumo even tweeted the news themselves & indicated extra-long toilet stops were going to happen.
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Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2026, 13:36:50 »
It would seem that the toilets were not involved in any of the refurbishment works carried out!..
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2026, 07:59:51 »
Quote from: ChrisB on August 14, 2026, 13:36:27
Quote from: Bob_Blakey on August 14, 2026, 08:59:13
It does not appear to have been made clear that Lumo have stated categorically that none of their Stirling trains enter service without at least some working WC▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority), was Wiltshire County Council until March 2009)'s and the issue seems to be one of 'mid-journey' failure.

And that's rubbish anyway! Their early morning 0615? to Stirling left London with NO working toilets the other day - Lumo even tweeted the news themselves & indicated extra-long toilet stops were going to happen.

The gist of my original comment was 'nicked' from the Green Signals Podcast article of Thursday 13th August. So Lumo told messrs Harris and/or Bowker a blatant lie? In the same article it was also said that the WC systems were not part of the refurbishment programme (see above).
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Sixty3Closure
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2026, 12:32:46 »
My nephew caught the service the next day and toilets all working. He was also quite impressed with the service generally although he's not a great train traveller so probably not too much to compare it to.
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