'Surveillance pricing'.

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

It's probably good to know that surveillance pricing exists. (I didn't.) Prices for items are not displayed and a system checks what it knows about someone and presents a personalised price for that person - which may take account of e.g. their pain point. It could be argued that dynamic pricing / surge pricing is on the way to this, but for the addition of the personal data aspect. It's easy to think how this could go south & become a 'mare for everyone if it crept in to transport ticketing.

Mark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing

[grahame]

It's probably good to know that surveillance pricing exists. (I didn't.) Prices for items are not displayed and a system checks what it knows about someone and presents a personalised price for that person - which may take account of e.g. their pain point. It could be argued that dynamic pricing / surge pricing is on the way to this, but for the addition of the personal data aspect. It's easy to think how this could go south & become a 'mare for everyone if it crept in to transport ticketing.

Mark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing

Sadly, pricing based on what people appear to be able to pay does exist and has for many years. I suspect I have seen it on airline fares where an enquiry gives a price, then (having checked with family) a couple of minutes later the fare offer is higher.  Do we also see elements of it where prices are available only to new customers?

Even before "internet days", living in a bigger house we got very familiar with quotations for the same service being - we felt - adjusted upwards having seen where we lived.   


Edit note: Minor typo corrected, for clarity. CfN^▸ (Chris from Nailsea, an administrator on this forum). 

[ChrisB]

Now illegal I believe as prices have to be displayed at first sight

[stuving]

It's probably good to know that surveillance pricing exists. (I didn't.) Prices for items are not displayed and a system checks what it knows about someone and presents a personalised price for that person - which may take account of e.g. their pain point. It could be argued that dynamic pricing / surge pricing is on the way to this, but for the addition of the personal data aspect. It's easy to think how this could go south & become a 'mare for everyone if it crept in to transport ticketing.

Mark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing

That's natural pricing - or just pricing - isn't it? If you rock up to a little local market in much of the world, looking like a rich foreign tourist, you'll pay the rich-looking tourist price - much more that the locals pay. It's been like that since early antiquity! One of the first uses of writing was for laws and market regulations and records.

We've got used to open pricing - what it says on the label is what you (and everyone else) pay. That needs to be backed up by laws to enforce it. And there are exceptions, e.g. sales by private contract. The biggest example would be housing, where you can never be sure if you'd paid too much or if someone else did a special deal.

Incidentally, if we were logical the buyer would have professional advice on prices, as they need to make a judgement on every house. The seller, who usually has one, has a simple job (pick the best offer) unless they don't sell (in which case they need advice on the value to other buyers). But of course we're not logical in that sense.

[Surrey 455]

Sadly, pricing based on what people appear to be able to pay does exist and has for many years. I suspect I have seen it on airline fares where an enquiry gives a price, then (having checked with family) a couple of minutes later the fare offer is higher. 

Skyscanner offers various explanations for airline pricing including this:

How are flight prices calculated?
A little bit of insight
In short, distance and demand are pivotal factors that determine flight ticket prices.

Travel is just like any other valuable commodity, and it’s priced so that when demand is low, prices are low, to stimulate sales. Likewise, when demand is high, prices are high to capitalise on the interest. To do this, airlines set up a pricing schedule for their flights, putting the seats into price ‘buckets,’ and as one ‘bucket’ fills up, they open the next, more expensive one up for purchase.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Verging slightly overseas, I have some anecdotal view of property transactions in France.

My sister lives in France. She sold her converted farmhouse near Bordeaux and moved to Normandy.  She recounted how the legal process for the financial transaction on the day was suspended, while the legal people left the room, and some fine-tuning was negotiated between the seller (my sister) and the purchasers (a family from England).

Apparently, that's how it's done in France.

[rogerpatenall]

Verging slightly overseas, I have some anecdotal view of property transactions in France.

My sister lives in France. She sold her converted farmhouse near Bordeaux and moved to Normandy.  She recounted how the legal process for the financial transaction on the day was suspended, while the legal people left the room, and some fine-tuning was negotiated between the seller (my sister) and the purchasers (a family from England).

Apparently, that's how it's done in France.

Yes indeed it is.
And when I bought my house from a bank, a date was agreed for the signing. I booked the ferry and time off work. Then the bank said that their guy could not get down from Paris but would come two days later. 'No problem' said the Notaire. The documents of title now show that I bought the property from Caisse d'Epargne on April 22nd 1992 and that Caisse d'Epargne sold the property on April 24th 1992. Fortunately there were no insurance or other complications during the dual period.

[1st fan]

It's probably good to know that surveillance pricing exists. (I didn't.) Prices for items are not displayed and a system checks what it knows about someone and presents a personalised price for that person - which may take account of e.g. their pain point. It could be argued that dynamic pricing / surge pricing is on the way to this, but for the addition of the personal data aspect. It's easy to think how this could go south & become a 'mare for everyone if it crept in to transport ticketing.

Mark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing

Sadly, pricing based on what people appear to be able to pay does exist and has for many years. I suspect I have seen it on airline fares where an enquiry gives a price, then (having checked with family) a couple of minutes later the fare offer is higher.  Do we also see elements of it where prices are available only to new customers?

Even before "internet days", living in a bigger house we got very familiar with quotations for the same service being - we felt - adjusted upwards having seen where we lived.   


Edit note: Minor typo corrected, for clarity. CfN^▸ (Chris from Nailsea, an administrator on this forum). 

I have looked into this for a family member who was convinced a British airline had done this to them. I checked on the ITA^▸ (Integrated Transport Authority) Matrix https://matrix.itasoftware.com/search and found that the fare she was looking for had indeed gone. It wasn’t related to her or her prior searches it was just that fare had sold out. Someone else I knew at the time checked the actual fare buckets and the cheapy, non refundable, no changes bucket was now showing as 0. She bought the slightly more expensive fare and then when she was selecting her seats noticed there were very few unselected ones. Turns out it was a very popular and full flight.

[Mark A]

Thanks for that link.

Mark

[1st fan]

FYI^▸ (for your information) that site won’t sell you tickets but it will give you the fare breakdown and the ticket rules

How to buy this ticket
Tickets cannot be purchased directly from ITA^▸ (Integrated Transport Authority) Software.
Provide this information to a travel agent to help them match the fares found.
Make sure to provide the exact booking and fare codes shown.
Fare for 1 adult
US$991.50
Changes to this ticket will incur a penalty fee.
This ticket is non-refundable.
Fare 1: Carrier OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey) NLY00DBO EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context) to LON (rules)
Passenger type ADT, ONE-WAY fare, booking code N
Covers EWR-LHR (Premium Economy)                                            US$376.00
United States Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service                    US$5.60
US International Departure Tax (US)                                              US$23.40
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF)                                                  US$4.50
Carrier-imposed surcharge (YQ)                                                     US$560.00
Carrier-imposed surcharge (YR)                                                     US$22.00
Subtotal per passenger                                                                 US$991.50
Number of passengers
x1
Subtotal for 1 adult                                                                       US$991.50

It also shows the fare construct that if you’re booking with a Travel Agent you can send them.

Fare Construction (can be useful to travel agents)
EWR OS LON Q200.00 176.00NLY00DBO NUC 376.00 END ROE 1.00 XT 23.40US 5.60AY 560.00YQ 22.00YR 4.50XF EWR4.50
Total Airfare & Taxes
US$991.50

What I often do is find a fare on ITA, look at Google Flights to find the same one, and then once found, book using the link to an airline etc. on Google Flights

[grahame]

Covers EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context)-LHR (Premium Economy)                                            US$376.00
...
Carrier-imposed surcharge (YQ)                                                     US$560.00
Carrier-imposed surcharge (YR)                                                     US$22.00

Looks like a case of the tail wagging the dog. $588 out of $991.  Nearly 60% of what you're asked to pay is in this "surcharge" bucket ...

[ChrisB]

Fuel surcharges thanks to Trump.....

[1st fan]

Covers EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context)-LHR (Premium Economy)                                            US$376.00
...
Carrier-imposed surcharge (YQ)                                                     US$560.00
Carrier-imposed surcharge (YR)                                                     US$22.00

Looks like a case of the tail wagging the dog. $588 out of $991.  Nearly 60% of what you're asked to pay is in this "surcharge" bucket ...

Normally it’s to get money out of the people paying using airline points for their ticket. So the ticket price of $376 is what you pay for with the points, then on top of that you have to pay the surcharge in cash. So essentially with the points you’re getting a 30% discount, which to my mind makes the points less attractive than if you can pay for the whole thing in points. There is something on BA^» (British Airways - about) in Europe where you can essentially pay for most of it in points.