Virgin Cross Channel?

GBM

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Virgin Cross Channel?

« on: August 17, 2026, 13:04:20 »

From the BBC^»
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjrvx4yye81o

Virgin's plans to run rail services between London and Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam have moved closer after it was granted track access by the UK^▸ regulator.

The company has been given approval to run up to 20 daily return services through the Channel Tunnel by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR^» ), with the agreement running from 1 October 2030 to 31 December 2040.
..................snip...............

Apologies to mods.
Please move to a more appropriate thread somewhere please!


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Chris from Nailsea

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Re: Virgin Cross Channel?

« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2026, 14:09:36 »

No problem, GBM: here is probably the best Coffee Shop forum board to post about journeys starting (or proposed to start) in the UK^▸ .

CfN^▸ . Wink


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Noggin

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Re: Virgin Cross Channel?

« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2026, 10:59:10 »

Can't see how there's enough market (or capacity) to support Eurostar, Trenitalia and Virgin.

I wonder whether it's a front operation for DB^» , Renfe, or just an opportunistic play to get licenses and trains in play which can then be auctioned off to the highest bidder?

Incidentally, took the Eurostar from Amsterdam to London last week. I appreciate it's summer but was surprised to see the train so busy - my carriage was probably 75% on leaving Amsterdam and full by Lille. Dutch passport control was glacially slow however, presumably due to the new EU^» system and understaffing as no queues for the UK^▸ checks. Train was 20 mins leaving as a result. They are going to need a much bigger terminal to deal with more than one train at a time.


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grahame

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Re: Virgin Cross Channel?

« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2026, 11:12:47 »

Quote from: Noggin on August 18, 2026, 10:59:10

The ... slowness ... of EU checks compared to UK ones, and the EU checks first, means that you queue at the bottleneck and if the UK agents are then busy anywhere between 5% and 95% of their time it makes no difference to the queueing time for them.

My reading of the other applications is that they are looking at other termini such as Frankfurt, Zurich and Disneyland. And there's the Ryanair application for such services as from London (Emerson Park) to Berlin (Pasewalk) which would serve more modest terminals in the general region of a major city. There could be a market, I think.


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John D

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Posts: 419

Re: Virgin Cross Channel?

« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2026, 11:17:47 »

Quote from: Noggin on August 18, 2026, 10:59:10

The trains for TrenItalia France appear to be common type (Hitachi made Frecciarossa 1000) as used on Paris-Marseille, Paris-Milan etc so could easily be reallocated.

Obviously the market will determine the volume (within limits) depending on the ticket price

Ouigo, Iryo, Avlo in Spain have some tickets below €20. Of course operating costs with channel tunnel, and security will be more, but if some tickets are nearer £50 then clearly volume will be much more than current expensive fares.

My own hunch is TrenItalia will try and build market share from its 2029 launch, to get a foothold before Virgin starts year later, and before Eurostar gets any new trains.

It would of course be possible to reinstate or add security at the stations with International platforms currently not used by International trains (Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Ashford). And I could easily forsee Stratford getting trains, indeed I have even seen a suggestion that TrenItalia intends to use Stratford, then run empty to the Camden spur for reversal to avoid St Pancras fees. Presumably there is trade off between St Pancras fees and cost of staffing Stratford International


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Noggin

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Re: Virgin Cross Channel?

« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2026, 22:33:58 »

Second your hunch with Trenitalia.

They are supposedly planning to start services into Germany with the Frecciarossa 1000's by early next year.

If that goes to plan (and they've got deep enough pockets), then being able to combine a solid service in the London/Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam axis with eastern connections into Germany could give Trenitalia massive economies of scale and the benefit of a single ticket.

In Germany, Trenitalia would presumably have the luxury of not having to serve smaller stations (which are politically difficult for DB^» to drop) and might be able to pick a few cherries like a direct Amsterdam <> Hamburg service.

If all that happens, will be interesting to see how Flix responds - as for in the UK^▸ , I've long thought that a road/rail hub in Ebbsfleet would be ideal for Flix, with a counterpart in Calais or Brussels.


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