HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) - Government proposals, alternative routes, discussion

[whole diary]

[Sixty3Closure]

Without trying to delve into politics my first thought on reading about this is that it was a bit light on dates and actual commitment and will probably not get built.

[Noggin]

As the present platforms at Manchester Picc are already at high level (The Metrolink trams in the undercroft are at ground level), I would be interested to see how that would work.

The original HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) plan has the new lines on the east side of the station.

Actually my guess is that they would put the platforms underneath Piccadilly and then follow the alignment of the proposed 1970's Picc-Vicc tunnels to get to Victoria and the Transpennine line, with an extra west-bound branch to enable Manchester to Glasgow HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)).

In Antwerp they put platforms on two levels, a lower one for HS services and an upper level for regional services. If I were Andy Burnham I'd be looking at ways to do that and have a few intermediate stations to effectively build an S-Bahn.

A pair of tunnels for regional services would also have the benefit of reducing traffic on the Oxford Road corridor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picc-Vic_tunnel

[Red Squirrel]

According to Rail

RAIL understands that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) still holds the land between Birmingham and Crewe with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))’s compulsory purchase order powers for the now-cancelled Phase 2 expire on February 11. It’s thought discussions are under way to decide how to proceed.

[Mark A]

One Uy Hoang has captured, for Google Streetview, a glimpse of actual tangible HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) phase 2a embankment - from the towpath of the Staffs and Worcs Canal.

Mark

https://tinyurl.com/3vje36vw

[TonyN]

One Uy Hoang has captured, for Google Streetview, a glimpse of actual tangible HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) phase 2a embankment - from the towpath of the Staffs and Worcs Canal.

Mark

https://tinyurl.com/3vje36vw

Its actualy on the Trent and Mersey just south of Fradley Junction with the Coventry canal.
Passengers will be able to transfer from a temporary terminus to a narrowboat service to Manchester taking about 3 days. Fares will be cheaper if they work the locks.

[Mark A]

Thanks times two - for the my-bad location catch and also the intermodal reveal.

Mark

[Chris from Nailsea]

In the meantime, I have revised the heading of this topic, pending the result of a discussion among the admin / moderator team here on the Coffee Shop forum.

Democracy in action. CfN^▸ (Chris from Nailsea, an administrator on this forum).

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Leamside Line agreement between Gateshead and County Durham signed 'subject to value for money'

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North East Mayor Kim McGuinness (left) and Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander met in the region to sign the agreement

An agreement to reopen a regional rail line has been signed by the transport secretary, subject to the assurance that it delivers good value for money.

Further development work on the Leamside Line, which runs from Pelaw in Gateshead to Tursdale in County Durham, is set to progress as part of the Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR^▸ (Northern Powerhouse Rail)) initiative.

Regional politicians said the line could provide train links for 100,000 people in the north-east of England, after it closed to passengers in the 1960s.

The document stated the government would ensure resources were available for the Leamside Line reopening "subject to agreement of that business case and assurance that this delivers good value for money".

Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander met Labour's North East Mayor Kim McGuinness on Thursday to progress the long-awaited proposal, the Local Democracy Reporting Service said.

Funding was agreed in 2025 for a restoration of the northern section of the disused route as part of a new Washington loop of the Tyne and Wear Metro.

The document stated the government would work with the North East on the business case for the remainder of the proposed Leamside Line reopening, including considering better connectivity for Sunderland.

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A map showing the potential stations on the Leamside Line, including the planned Metro line to Washington

As well as allowing for new train services through Ferryhill, Sincliffe, Belmont, West Rainton and Penshaw, the route could also provide an alternative path for freight trains to free up more capacity on the congested East Coast Main Line between York and Newcastle.

The NPR scheme also includes plans to improve rail services from Durham, Darlington and Newcastle.

Alexander said: "We're giving the region the support it needs to unlock the full economic and social benefits for its people."

McGuinness added: "For the first time in decades, the new line will give communities a rail link which will be transformational for local people, in the same way the Northumberland Line has been for South East Northumberland."

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) trains could run slower than planned to save money

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HS2 high speed railway trains could be made to run slower than initially planned to keep costs down.

The government is to order the company building the project to consider lower speeds on the line from London to Birmingham, which has been hit by delays and cost overruns.

HS2's chief executive Mark Wild was expected to say this month the line would not be completed until after the current 2033 deadline and it would cost over £100bn in today's prices, but that announcement has now been delayed until after the May elections.

Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander is said to be weighing up all options to claw back as much time and money for the taxpayer as possible. Among the options is a lower initial operating speed on the line.

HS2 has been designed to allow trains to run at up to 360km/h (224mph). Department for Transport sources point out that this is faster than any other conventional railway in the world.

Most high speed trains in this country run at up to 200km/h (125mph), while those on the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)) operate at up to 300km/h.

This means HS2 trains could not be tested at their intended operating speeds until a bespoke test track, or the railway itself is complete, something DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) sources claim would delay completion of the project by several years and cost billions of pounds.

The alternative, they say, would be to send trains to China to be tested on existing tracks there.

The government has been highly critical of decisions taken by previous administrations. Last year, the Transport Secretary described the scheme as "an appalling mess".

The Conservatives have been approached for comment.

Wild had previously worked as chief executive of Crossrail, the project that became London's Elizabeth Line. He was appointed as chief executive of HS2 under the previous government in May 2024 to oversee the completion of the railway.

Wild has spent more than a year working on a "reset" of the entire project which is meant to set out a realistic schedule and budget for delivering the line.

A number of major developments, including tunnels and bridges, have been built along the line but it is still years away from completion.

HS2 was originally envisaged as a high-speed railway that would connect London with Leeds and Manchester. However, the sections north of Birmingham were subsequently cancelled.

Under current plans, HS2 trains will travel from Birmingham to Manchester, but at reduced speed on the existing West Coast Main Line.

[TaplowGreen]

By way of a summary;

The Transport Secretary described the scheme as "an appalling mess".