HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

When you agree a mortgage on a house with your bank manager, you generally know the cost of what you're buying.

But HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) hasn't been built yet. This isn't like buying a bijou maisonette at Taplow Riverside.

Sarcastic and patronising in one sentence. Well done.

As I said above, an echo chamber where alternative opinions are downplayed or mocked.

I'll leave you to it.

Mentioning 'Taplow' could be seen as tackling the player rather than the ball, and for that I apologise.

Apology appreciated and accepted.

[Red Squirrel]

Those who have followed this topic over the years will be aware that there is another expensive transport project in the offing, which will also require the destruction of ancient woodland. Unlike HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), though, the Lower Thames Crossing will worsen road traffic and increase greenhouse gas emissions.

So it is pleasing to read this on the Highways England website:

On 20 November 2020 we withdrew our [DCO^▸ (Development Consent Order, or Driver Controlled Operation (that is, operation and dispatch of the train solely by the driver even with another member of staff on board), depending on context)] application based on early feedback from the Planning Inspectorate. We will take time to collate the information required for the specific points raised and will be resubmitting the application early in the new year.

Source: Highways England

Delving deeper, there appear to have been five reasons for bouncing this DCO application. Mostly these are related to consultation which, given COVID, is perhaps forgivable. However this one not so much:

Reporting preliminary environmental effects - the Preliminary Environmental Information Report used for the Statutory Consultation contained only highlevel information on potential environmental effects and was found to be lacking in many areas. Due to the extent of the scheme changes and assumed progress with the EIA since the end of Statutory Consultation, a greater level of detail for the entire scheme should have been made available at this stage, enabling the Council to undertake an informed consideration of potential effects of the scheme as a whole

Source: Email from Thurrock Council to Planning Inspectorate

Thurrock Council, it may be noted, declared a climate emergency in October 2019.

[Rhydgaled]

Those who have followed this topic over the years will be aware that there is another expensive transport project in the offing, which will also require the destruction of ancient woodland. Unlike HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), though, the Lower Thames Crossing will worsen road traffic and increase greenhouse gas emissions.

So it is pleasing to read this on the Highways England website:

On 20 November 2020 we withdrew our [DCO^▸ (Development Consent Order, or Driver Controlled Operation (that is, operation and dispatch of the train solely by the driver even with another member of staff on board), depending on context)] application based on early feedback from the Planning Inspectorate. We will take time to collate the information required for the specific points raised and will be resubmitting the application early in the new year.

Source: Highways England

Delving deeper, there appear to have been five reasons for bouncing this DCO application. Mostly these are related to consultation which, given COVID, is perhaps forgivable. However this one not so much:

Reporting preliminary environmental effects - the Preliminary Environmental Information Report used for the Statutory Consultation contained only highlevel information on potential environmental effects and was found to be lacking in many areas. Due to the extent of the scheme changes and assumed progress with the EIA since the end of Statutory Consultation, a greater level of detail for the entire scheme should have been made available at this stage, enabling the Council to undertake an informed consideration of potential effects of the scheme as a whole

Source: Email from Thurrock Council to Planning Inspectorate

Thurrock Council, it may be noted, declared a climate emergency in October 2019.

A Council casting doubt on a road scheme?

I believe Pembrokeshire County Council has also declared a climate emergency (in 2019), but this year have supported several miles of new 3-lane trunk road at public inquiries.

[Red Squirrel]

For anyone interested in what's actually happening on the ground along the route of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), Mark Thrushton has posted a number of videos on YouTube. As well as some very good drone footage, he also walks around the various work-sites getting as close as a member of the public can. You can see his channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCySh3_cvEmPp9cE8omW3GYw

[stuving]

And, in separate news today, Florence and Cecilia have both arrived on site - though the'll need a bit of time to get themselves together. From Construction Index:

The first two tunnel boring machines (TBMs) for the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) project have now arrived in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), ready to start work in the new year.

The components of the TBMs on site in west Lodnon, waiting for reassembly

The TBMs have been made by Herrenknecht in southwest Germany. At 2,000 tonnes and 170 metres long, they were transported to the UK in more than 300 separate shipments over the course of two months.

The parts are now at the Chiltern tunnel southern portal site in west London ready to be reassembled, tested and commissioned.

The two machines ? named Florence and Cecilia ? will be digging the two bores of the 10-mile-long Chiltern tunnel. This is the longest tunnel on the HS2 project and the first to start construction. The TBMS are expected to take three years to complete their journeys through the mix of chalk and flint, progressing at an average of 15 metres a day.

Each tunnel will require 56,000 segments ? which will all be made on site. A crew of 17 people will operate each TBM, working in shifts to keep the machines running 24/7. They will be supported by over 100 people on the surface, managing the logistics.

These first two TBMs will be operated by HS2 central section contractor, Align ? a joint venture of Bouygues Travaux Publics, Sir Robert McAlpine, and VolkerFitzpatrick.

Would you describe that site as "in west London"? It's just inside the M25, near West Hyde, in Hertfordshire.

[Bmblbzzz]

Florence and Cecilia; it's Simon and Garfunkel playing on the Magic Roundabout!

[TonyK]

It looks to me as though they are going ahead with this HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) thing. I see Swampy is putting in a guest appearance again, too.

Mark Thruston's video is interesting, and shows that quite a bit of dismantled railway is to be pressed into service. I don't see much reference to that in official publications, or we may have seen the various governments involved over the years take a different line. "You said you wanted more of the railway lines closed under Beeching reopened, and we listened!" has a ring to it.

[ChrisB]

You might include a link to Mark Thruston's video?

[paul7575]

Post #1098 links to his channel Chris...

[ChrisB]

Oops, sorry - the board has stopped going to each thread's first unread post.....now read that.

[Electric train]

And, in separate news today, Florence and Cecilia have both arrived on site - though the'll need a bit of time to get themselves together. From Construction Index:

The first two tunnel boring machines (TBMs) for the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) project have now arrived in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), ready to start work in the new year.

The components of the TBMs on site in west Lodnon, waiting for reassembly

The TBMs have been made by Herrenknecht in southwest Germany. At 2,000 tonnes and 170 metres long, they were transported to the UK in more than 300 separate shipments over the course of two months.

The parts are now at the Chiltern tunnel southern portal site in west London ready to be reassembled, tested and commissioned.

The two machines ? named Florence and Cecilia ? will be digging the two bores of the 10-mile-long Chiltern tunnel. This is the longest tunnel on the HS2 project and the first to start construction. The TBMS are expected to take three years to complete their journeys through the mix of chalk and flint, progressing at an average of 15 metres a day.

Each tunnel will require 56,000 segments ? which will all be made on site. A crew of 17 people will operate each TBM, working in shifts to keep the machines running 24/7. They will be supported by over 100 people on the surface, managing the logistics.

These first two TBMs will be operated by HS2 central section contractor, Align ? a joint venture of Bouygues Travaux Publics, Sir Robert McAlpine, and VolkerFitzpatrick.

Would you describe that site as "in west London"? It's just inside the M25, near West Hyde, in Hertfordshire.

Convenient they arrived before the 31st Dec ........... wonder what the WTO tariff is on a TBM 

[TonyK]

You might include a link to Mark Thruston's video?

Indeed! I'll use the one Red Squirrel kindly furnished us with, above.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCySh3_cvEmPp9cE8omW3GYw

Convenient they arrived before the 31st Dec ........... wonder what the WTO tariff is on a TBM 

Wouldn't matter, really. This is a nation of ingenuity and expertise - we can use our own home-produced boring stuff!
 

[stuving]

Convenient they arrived before the 31st Dec ........... wonder what the WTO tariff is on a TBM 

There isn't a single "WTO tariff". It depends on the two countries involved, and even without a specific trade agreement there are things like GSP (Generalised Scheme of Preferences). But for example importing a TBM from Australia into an EU^» (European Union - about) country would lead to a tariff of ... 0%. .

That's the rate for stuff in category HS847910 "machinery for public works, building or the like", part of 8479 "machines and mechanical appliances having individual functions, not specified or included elsewhere in this Chapter", itself part of the basic class 84 "nuclear reactors, boilers, machinery and mechanical appliances; parts thereof".

Note that for HS860310 "self-propelled railway or tramway coaches, vans and trucks [...], powered from an external source of electricity", and most other railway equipment, the rate is still 1.7%, as it was when I last reported it.

[Surrey 455]

Would you describe that site as "in west London"? It's just inside the M25, near West Hyde, in Hertfordshire.

No, I would agree with you. It's not London and I would probably describe it as near north west London.
Similarly Channel 4 now show at the very end of each programme where it was made. I've noticed programmes made at Pinewood Studios are shown as "Made in London". It's at least a mile and a half from the Greater London boundary. "Made in Buckinghamshire" would be more accurate .

[rogerw]

Still nowhere near as bad as American adverts for cruises which state that ships call at London(Southampton).