HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

It's also singular that London's Snow Hill Tunnel south from Farringdon lost its passenger services in whenever and eventually ended up trackless. Tunnels beneath cities that are called 'Snow Hill', in general, have, at times, a precarious existence.

Mark

[Electric train]

It is highly likely the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) rolling stock will enter service ahead of the HS2 opening running services into Euston.

To be fair, given that's at least 17 years away, that doesn't set a terribly high bar.

HS2 planned opening is between 2029 and 2033

[TaplowGreen]

......somewhat embarrassing.


https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/uncategorised/hs2-chief-admits-he-never-knew-real-cost-of-euston-station-25-04-2023/?s=09

[grahame]

......somewhat embarrassing.


https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/uncategorised/hs2-chief-admits-he-never-knew-real-cost-of-euston-station-25-04-2023

The original link didn't work for me ... I've played with it (modified in the quotation) and here are selective elements:

HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) chief executive Mark Thurston has admitted he did not know how much Euston Station would cost to build when a Dragados and Mace joint venture was appointed as construction partner for the job.

Giving evidence to the Public Accounts Committee on the costs of Euston Station, Thurston said that HS2's “best estimate” for the terminus build cost in 2019 was £3bn, but that HS2 did not know the actual costs until the marketplace “had priced it”. The £3bn price tag was made up of a £2.3bn base cost and £700m of contingency.

The HS2 chief went on to say that HS2 has spent £2bn on Euston to date, while construction is currently paused after the government's decision that the station will be delivered alongside HS2's Phase 2b. Last month the National Audit Office said the total station build is on track to cost £4.8 billion.

“The reality is with all of HS2 – and it's the same across the sector, [and] across government – [you don't] really know what this is going to cost the taxpayer on these big projects until the marketplace has [been] priced in, and you're in the hands of the market".

“Of course, now we've got a number that we can't live with and we are sort of thinking about what we do next.”

The admission that the full costs for Euston were not appreciated until recently may come as a surprise to MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)’s who approved the HS2 Phase One High Speed Rail Bill in 2017. At the time the costs for HS2 were approximately £56bn. Those costs have now risen to around £100bn, despite the project being scaled back.

In October, Harper also revealed that “significant elements” of design work carried out for Euston Station, which was originally intended to have 11 platforms, can “no longer be used” and these historic costs had been designated as “an impairment” in official accounts. Following a re-design, the station is now planned to have 10 platforms.

[rogerw]

A good example of the case that changing your mind increases your costs. It may well have been cheaper to have continued with the original

[Ralph Ayres]

won't commit to Euston though he does commit to Manchester........although as Andrew Neil points out you can get there in 2 hours already.

...which is sort of irrelevant as the main aim (despite the media focus on high speeds resulting from calling it HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))) is to take much of the long-distance traffic off the West Coast Main Line to make more room for freight and shorter distance passengers. Trouble is if the journey from central London by HS2 takes about as long and is less straightforward, which it will be if you have to head out to Old Oak Common first, most people will still prefer to use the existing route from Euston rendering HS2 all but pointless.

[IndustryInsider]

Old Oak Common will only be 3 minutes from Paddington, 6 to Bond Street…etc.  You’ll barely notice the difference from a lot of places in London.

[TaplowGreen]

Old Oak Common will only be 3 minutes from Paddington, 6 to Bond Street…etc.  You’ll barely notice the difference from a lot of places in London.

Which (ironically) will almost certainly be the line used in a few years time when the announcement is made that HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) will no longer go to Euston.

[IndustryInsider]

If that prediction turns out to be correct it will be interesting to see how they deal with the lack of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) platforms at Old Oak Common.

[Mark A]

It's striking that Euston's onward connectivity has always remained in some ways so poor, especially given the length of time that Euston's been there, and didn't it almost become a joint terminus for the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) too?

Not managing to get itself on the metropolitan line was unfortunate, and I'm not convinced that even the walking route from Euston to Euston Square station has ever been adequately signed, though that might be down to my ability to follow signage, mind.

You'd have expected a sort of 'South Kensington to Exhibition Road' style walkway to evolve, but nooooh. Instead, people easily walk out of Euston and wander off looking for Euston Square like members of the fuchawi tribe.

Mark

[grahame]

If that prediction turns out to be correct it will be interesting to see how they deal with the lack of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) platforms at Old Oak Common.

Crayonista Answer:

1. Terminate many/most of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) long distance services at Reading rather then Paddington

2. Extend Elizabeth line trains that currently terminate at Paddington from tunnel through London to Reading, with no or very limited intermediate stops

3. Run HS2 trains in to terminate at Paddington using platform space freed from GWR trains terminating at Reading.

[Bmblbzzz]

So that would be a compulsory change of trains on the way to London for people from S. Wales, the West of England, Devon and Cornwall? Sounds like a good incentive to take the coach or drive.

[grahame]

So that would be a compulsory change of trains on the way to London for people from S. Wales, the West of England, Devon and Cornwall? Sounds like a good incentive to take the coach or drive.

Nope - "many/most" not "all".   In the interest of Clock Face, a Carmarthen, a Penzance and and a Bristol train still running into Paddingon each hour - routes where there is a current pattern of Express and SemiFast.  And, yes, expect howls of "no way!" from those who have to make an additional change of trains.

But - serious question - how many people are headed for a final destination of Paddington, and how many change there anyway to head on to the cities of Westminster or London, both served by the Elizabeth line?

[IndustryInsider]

Crayonista Answer:

Oh dear!  Put the crayons away, Graham!

[Mark A]

Crayonista Answer:

1. Terminate many/most of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) long distance services at Reading rather then Paddington

Could go full crayonista, create some additional platforms on the space cleared for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) at Euston, and run many of the GWR long distance services into those.

Mark

P.S. Only go full crayonista when all other options have been eliminated.
There'd be something to be said for allotting all projects a (negative / positive) 'crayonista score'.