HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) - Government proposals, alternative routes, discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Gilligan again....

[TaplowGreen]

Gilligan again....

There's a song there somewhere..........

[Electric train]

Gilligan again....

The self proclaimed rail expert ................. Green Signals gave him a glowing endorsement  ............ NOT 

[Trowres]

This may be my first post on HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)); a subject I have previously chosen to avoid.

Mr Gilligan, a former advisor to Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak, blamed four “foundational flaws” – the wrong route, wrong speed, bad connections and “ratchet” project management – for the current state of the line.

Under normal circumstances, I might sniff at Mr Gilligan's pedigree, but on the four flaws, I feel he may have some good points. As for "Green Signals"... could we have some more objective commentary, please?

[Mark A]

This may be my first post on HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)); a subject I have previously chosen to avoid.

Mr Gilligan, a former advisor to Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak, blamed four “foundational flaws” – the wrong route, wrong speed, bad connections and “ratchet” project management – for the current state of the line.

Under normal circumstances, I might sniff at Mr Gilligan's pedigree, but on the four flaws, I feel he may have some good points. As for "Green Signals"... could we have some more objective commentary, please?

Every sympathy with people who avoid the subject of HS2...  but...

Ah, Mr Gilligan. To pull a few phrases from that piece:

He said that HS2 should have chosen a “better route” along the M40 corridor. - That's the M40 that crosses several sensitive landscapes and after protest had to be routed to take a big bight around Otmoor.

"slicing through ancient woodland" - HS2 has actually done very little slicing of ancient woodland, the impact on ancient woodland has been much overstated by the Woodland Trust among others.

"lowered speed aspirations from 250mph to avoid costlier tracks" - HS2 is about capacity and HS2's speed maximises capacity - but yes, involves more energy to shift trains and also demands more of alignments, so, yes, the balance may perhaps not have been right, with an element of 'Our trains will be faster than your trains'. Slab track is expensive but does though offer big maintenance savings. Is one aspect of HS2 that responsibility for the maintenance has been pushed onto the builders for many years, one of the factors that has pushed up the quotes?

"Former HS2 plans to connect via a “15-minute walk through the streets of Birmingham"" - that's a bit naughty. Onward HS2 trains will not touch Curzon Street, and Birmingham's metro will connect Curzon Street and New Street. (it would have been good if they'd been one big station though).

According to the transport advisor, almost half of the benefits of HS2 will be felt in London and the southeast even if the full scheme is delivered – degrading links from smaller cities such as Stockport, Stoke and Coventry on the main lines. - On to the naughty step with that one too. A principle of HS2 is to free up capacity on the classic network. The likes of Stockport, Stoke and Coventry can then have the opportunity to benefit from the additional capacity released.

He also called proposals for ‘HS2 light’ a “delusion and a trap”. - Hang on, that's one of his foundational flaws. He's just alleged 'Wrong speed' but when a 186mph alternative is floated, he doesn't like that either. What's Andrew's idea for addressing the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) issues at Colwich, Stafford? Given that one option is shovel ready to Crewe, it might be a good idea to build that, as the legislation is already in place.

"the wrong route" - Concerning the London to Birmingham section - HS2 phase 1 - while we're well into sunk cost territory on that, HS2 phase 1 as a freestanding railway isn't viable - add the length to Crewe and the position improves greatly, with a big win for the classic network too.

Mark

[Trowres]

Mark, thank you for the long response. Might we both agree that one of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))'s weaknesses is its poor integration with the "classic" network?

[Electric train]

Mark, thank you for the long response. Might we both agree that one of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))'s weaknesses is its poor integration with the "classic" network?

There is integration with the classic network North of Birmingham, the integration at the London end, the link to HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) was scrapped many years ago, although the OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) - EUS tunnels will have passive provision; however Old Oak Common Station will provide a major interchange.  The major integration that were scrapped, the links to Leeds and Derby etc.

HS2 main purpose is capacity release on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) South of Crewe

[eightonedee]

Under normal circumstances, I might sniff at Mr Gilligan's pedigree, but on the four flaws, I feel he may have some good points. As for "Green Signals"...

But - Gilligan's transport experience seems largely as Cycling Czar under Boris Johnson when the letter was Mayor or London, a political appointee on TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s board under Shapps as Johnson's transport minister. As a journalist his career (as per his Wikipedia profile) included twice costing his newspaper employers substantial libel damages. So - limited experience, none of running any kind of substantial infrastructure project or transport operation outside the M25

Messrs Bowker and Harris of Green Signals are respectively experienced senior manager from major infrastructure projects and transport undertakings and a very experienced senior rail journalist. I think I know which I'd be inclined to take seriously.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Some good news from the Chancellor's Budget - from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxl1zd07l1o

Transport

£2 cap on single bus fares in England to rise to £3 from January

5p cut to fuel duty on petrol and diesel, due to end in April 2025, kept for another year

Commitment to fund tunnelling work to take HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) high-speed rail line to Euston station in central London

Commitment to deliver upgrade to trans-Pennine rail line between York and Manchester, running via Leeds and Huddersfield

[Mark A]

Mark, thank you for the long response. Might we both agree that one of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))'s weaknesses is its poor integration with the "classic" network?

Not at all, thankyou for posting that. I certainly agree with your point if HS2, as built, is London to Birmingham + its link to the classic WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) at Handsacre as in that form it doesn't effectively transfer load from the classic railway.

Sunak's decision crippled the product of many years planning and much physical work - a stark reminder of the perils of bad governance.

Stop-start fashion, it's now being taken to Euston, but the terminus must be at great risk of being boxed in with space constraints and hence lack of futureproofing.

There will be several ghosts in the resulting machine, people attracted to unrealised infrastructure will wonder at Curzon Street's unused platforms, others may find themselves on canal boats passing the already built stub that will carry phase 2a - and which currently comes to an abrupt end at one side of the Trent and Mersey canal, the bridge that was intended to carry the line across the water unbuilt.

Brindley's spirit, when not dreaming of rolling his canals around the contours, or of the days when everyone was wrestling with the principle of a staircase lock on UK^▸ (United Kingdom) soil, would be shaking his head in wonder.

Mark

[ChrisB]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Bat safety shed will cost £100m, says HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) chairman

A special barrier that will be built to protect rare bats will cost £100m, according to the chairman of HS2 Ltd.

Sir Jon Thompson told a rail industry conference the bat protection structure in Buckinghamshire was needed to appease Natural England, as bats are legally protected in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

The 1km (0.6 mile) curved barrier will cover the tracks alongside Sheephouse Wood near Calvert in Buckinghamshire, to prevent bats being disturbed by high-speed trains.

Sir Jon said there was "no evidence that high-speed trains interfere with bats".

"We call it a shed," he said. "This shed, you're not going to believe this, cost more than £100m to protect the bats in this wood."

Natural England said it had not required HS2 to "adopt this structure", but its role had been to "comment on whether the proposed mitigations will work".

Other more expensive options, including a bored tunnel and re-routing the railway, were considered.

After receiving the green light from Natural England for the design, HS2 Ltd was forced to spend "hundreds of thousands of pounds" on lawyers and environmental specialists because the local council did not approve the work, Sir Jon said.

"In the end, I won the planning permission by going above Buckinghamshire Council's head," he explained.

Buckinghamshire Council opposes HS2 and has previously criticised the project, external for "unnecessarily damaging Sheephouse Wood".

The deputy cabinet member for HS2, Peter Martin, said: "Whilst the council wishes to protect species such as Bechstein's bats, one of the country’s rarest species, it was never supportive of what seemed like extremely excessive costs for a single structure.

"HS2 Ltd has always been adamant that the bat tunnel structure, which has been designed and built by HS2 Ltd’s own contractor, and the associated costs, were necessary, but it is not something we insisted on."

'Trite'

Sir Jon claimed the issue was an example of the UK's "genuine problem" with completing major infrastructure projects.

He told the Rail Industry Association's annual conference that HS2 Ltd had been required to obtain 8,276 consents from other public bodies in order to build phase one of the railway between London and Birmingham.

He said: "People say you've gone over the budget, but did people think about the bats [when setting the budget]?

"I'm being trite about it, but I'm trying to illustrate one example of the 8,276 of these [consents]."

Natural England Chief Operating Officer Oliver Harmar said: "Development and nature must go hand in hand".

"HS2 Ltd is required by legislation to avoid harm to the environment, and it is for them to make choices, consider risks, and factor in costs when deciding how to do this, whether by avoiding species and sites protected for nature or by investing in mitigation to limit harm where the route passes through sensitive sites."

Sir Jon, who has led the project since Mark Thurston left his role as chief executive in September 2023, warned in January that the estimated cost for phase one had soared to as much as £66.6bn - compared to the £37.5bn forecast in 2013

[RailCornwall]

Could anyone detail the route being taken from Reading to Euston and vv. during the Old Oak Common blockades?

[ChrisB]

Off to Acton, round the North London Line until it reaches the line into Euston

[stuving]

Off to Acton, round the North London Line until it reaches the line into Euston

Sort of - though only 300 m of the distance is on the NLL^▸ (North London line) itself. The route leaves the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) at the entrance to Acton Yard, and runs up the goods lines (the Poplars) to Acton Wells Jn. Having crossed the Central Line, it leaves the NLL for a parallel goods line through the South West Sidings to join the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) at Kensal Green Jn, where the West London line also joins from the other direction.

Work has started to electrify the Poplars, but that's not for the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) which can use diesel power. There is also a need for Cl 345s to be moved between the two ends of the Elizabeth Line when it is split at Old Oak Common.

[Mark A]

Is it the case that in the very early days, Euston was to be the terminus for the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and then there was a change of plan, and it's that that brings the two lines relatively close?

Mark