Campaign for Tavistock reopening

[whole diary]

[Andy]

Several news articles are reporting that campaigners are stepping up their bid to unlock funding for Tavistock by playing the defence and housing cards, tying the project to the expansion of Devonport dockyard as part of the planned incease in defence spending , plus the plans for new housing and the issue of overcongested roads They are also arguing for a new station at Plympton and proposing a Tavistock-Ivybridge via Devonport and Plymouth metro-style service.
With the mid-Devon metro, Exeter has set a very good example of how existing railways can be successfully reconfigured around a regional hub. Bristol is doing the same. Cornwall, too, on a more modest scale. Fingers crossed that Plymouth can follow suit.

[froome]

Is the campaign for a new station at Plympton a new campaign? As a non local who does travel down to Plymouth fairly often, it has always seemed to me to be a place where a new station is needed. Is there an obvious location for it?

[trainbuff]

I believe the plan is at Tavistock junction near the Marsh Mills end, though of course this will do little to alleviate traffic on Plymouth Road. Many commuters from Chaddlewood and the wider catchment of Plympton wont benefit much from it there methinks. But it cannot go on Hemerdon Bank and the old site is not suitable. Next available place is the old Hemerdon loops but this is too far out of Plympton at present, though would not be too far from Langage Industrial estate

[TaplowGreen]

Is the campaign for a new station at Plympton a new campaign? As a non local who does travel down to Plymouth fairly often, it has always seemed to me to be a place where a new station is needed. Is there an obvious location for it?

The bus service from Plympton to and from the City Centre is probably the best and most frequent in the Plymouth area. I'm not sure what a rail station there would add for commuters/shoppers/students?

[grahame]

The bus service from Plympton to and from the City Centre is probably the best and most frequent in the Plymouth area. I'm not sure what a rail station there would add for commuters/shoppers/students?

As a very occasional visitor to the Plymouth area I have been impressed by the buses I have used.  On paper, the train service from Plymouth to St Budeaux and Saltash is thin (and that's being political with the description) but then on the ground you realise that the parallel bus service is such that it wins "hands down" for local journeys.  On a statistically insignificant number of journeys to and from Marsh Mills, quality / frequency there was not a problem and the route seemed reasonably direct.

Comments in contrast to a couple of bus journeys made in Cornwall - in one case an accidental selection of the slowest service of the day which called at every village off the road and went down and back lanes, where I wished I had doglegged by train,  and then the final bus from another seaside town in the late afternoon which was during around the town we left a while back and into camp car parks to ensure folks got back home / to where they were staying before also taking those of us on board travelling further to where we wanted to go.

[RichardB]

Is the campaign for a new station at Plympton a new campaign? As a non local who does travel down to Plymouth fairly often, it has always seemed to me to be a place where a new station is needed. Is there an obvious location for it?

No, it's not a new campaign.  Plymouth City Council have long wanted to see a new station for Plympton.  There is new impetus though with the big investments coming in the Dockyard and a push, led by the City Council, for a Plymouth Metro system using the existing network and stations with Tavistock and Plympton added.

[Kernow Otter]

Is the campaign for a new station at Plympton a new campaign? As a non local who does travel down to Plymouth fairly often, it has always seemed to me to be a place where a new station is needed. Is there an obvious location for it?

No, it's not a new campaign.  Plymouth City Council have long wanted to see a new station for Plympton.  There is new impetus though with the big investments coming in the Dockyard and a push, led by the City Council, for a Plymouth Metro system using the existing network and stations with Tavistock and Plympton added.

Any sign of the Treulefoot Park and Ride being reconsidered as part of that?

[TaplowGreen]

Is the campaign for a new station at Plympton a new campaign? As a non local who does travel down to Plymouth fairly often, it has always seemed to me to be a place where a new station is needed. Is there an obvious location for it?

No, it's not a new campaign.  Plymouth City Council have long wanted to see a new station for Plympton.  There is new impetus though with the big investments coming in the Dockyard and a push, led by the City Council, for a Plymouth Metro system using the existing network and stations with Tavistock and Plympton added.

What a council wants isn't necessarily what the people want or need - history tells us that Plymouth is a very good example of this - as has been noted the bus service is pretty good - in and out of the City Centre but less so between local areas  - there has been a clamour for a service between Plymstock and Plympton for some time (and to be fair this is now happening, largely thanks to the new crematorium between the two which is to be served within the next few months), and there are other similar examples where a bus service between local areas would be of benefit.

That's not to say that new bus routes and a new rail station at Plympton are necessarily mutually exclusive, but personally I think there'd be more benefit to more people from an expansion of the former - and a great deal cheaper too.

[Andy]

IMO^▸ ('in my opinion'), it's a very smart move by the campaigners to link Tavistock and Plympton to new housing, defence spending/investment in Devonport dockyard and net zero. Money for purely civilian projects is going to be extremely tight but integrating the  bid with three govt top priorities means that it has a better chance of moving forward.
 

[grahame]

IMO^▸ ('in my opinion'), it's a very smart move by the campaigners to link Tavistock and Plympton to new housing, defence spending/investment in Devonport dockyard and net zero. Money for purely civilian projects is going to be extremely tight but integrating the  bid with three govt top priorities means that it has a better chance of moving forward.

If we are putting ourselves onto a more defence footing, can I ask how vulnerable the sea wall and cliffs at Dawlish would be to a targeted hostile attack, and whether it would make sense to plan for a second rail route into Plymouth - perhaps (indeed) via Tavistock and then past Ernesettle, Dockyard and Devonport?   That would leave a single point of potential failure from just Cowley Bridge Junction to the south end of Exeter St Davids either of which could be sorted by a triangular junction.

[TaplowGreen]

IMO^▸ ('in my opinion'), it's a very smart move by the campaigners to link Tavistock and Plympton to new housing, defence spending/investment in Devonport dockyard and net zero. Money for purely civilian projects is going to be extremely tight but integrating the  bid with three govt top priorities means that it has a better chance of moving forward.
 

It's an interesting thought but I'm not sure how the link stands up - the new Sherford housing development next to Plymstock was recently completed and is served by additional buses in terms of public transport.

As an ex Dockyardie myself, I always got the bus to/from work as it virtually dropped me at the gate. There are already direct buses from the Plympton area to the Dockyard timed to fit in with shift start/finish times - no reason why this can't be added to if necessary thus avoiding the enormous expense of new railway stations and infrastructure.

I certainly don't hear a clamour for a railway station from friends in Plympton.

Tavistock may be a different story of course, much further out of town and harder to reach.

[TaplowGreen]

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/tavistock-plymouth-rail-link-dream-10637870?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

£1.5 million needed for feasibility study.

[Red Squirrel]

The Devon Live article above seems slightly at odds with DCC^» (Devon County Council - website)'s website, which states:

In Autumn 2022, DCC submitted a Strategic Outline Business Case (SOBC) for restoring Tavistock-Plymouth rail services. The selected scheme would deliver a new station at Tavistock, and reinstate approximately 5 miles of track.

[...]

Through the SOBC, DCC is seeking £3 million to further develop the scheme. This would enable DCC to develop the business case, progress the detailed design, and complete the Development Consent Order process. Following this, a final decision would be needed to proceed to constructing the scheme.

Source: Devon County Council

So is it £1.5 million, or £3 million?

Followers of the Portishead saga may find reference to the DCO^▸ (Development Consent Order, or Driver Controlled Operation (that is, operation and dispatch of the train solely by the driver even with another member of staff on board), depending on context) process rather triggering! Is this massively cumbersome process really appropriate to a scheme such as this? Is this really a Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project? Reopening the whole route might qualify for this, but surely not a short local railway?

[Noggin]

The Devon Live article above seems slightly at odds with DCC^» (Devon County Council - website)'s website, which states:

In Autumn 2022, DCC submitted a Strategic Outline Business Case (SOBC) for restoring Tavistock-Plymouth rail services. The selected scheme would deliver a new station at Tavistock, and reinstate approximately 5 miles of track.

[...]

Through the SOBC, DCC is seeking £3 million to further develop the scheme. This would enable DCC to develop the business case, progress the detailed design, and complete the Development Consent Order process. Following this, a final decision would be needed to proceed to constructing the scheme.

Source: Devon County Council

So is it £1.5 million, or £3 million?

Followers of the Portishead saga may find reference to the DCO^▸ (Development Consent Order, or Driver Controlled Operation (that is, operation and dispatch of the train solely by the driver even with another member of staff on board), depending on context) process rather triggering! Is this massively cumbersome process really appropriate to a scheme such as this? Is this really a Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project? Reopening the whole route might qualify for this, but surely not a short local railway?

AIUI^▸ ('as I understand it') they have £2m of s106 money in the bank but need another £1.5m to do the feasibility work. So before spending it, they need to be reasonably certain that a package of funding for the extension could be assembled.

As for the DCO process, it seems to me that no end of money has been spent on initiatives to make local rail reopenings cheaper including light rail, minimal signalling etc. I suspect that as with electrification, the solution is probably Treasury commitment to a long-term rolling programme of reopenings, including with in-house NR^» (Network Rail - home page) teams doing work rather than consultants who inevitably have to pad their estimates to cover contingencies and lean times.