National Rail tweeted/x'd that there were no other changes in response to me asking

 
New conditions now on the National Rail website and I have mirrored for members at
https://www.firstgreatwestern.info/mirror/nrcot_20260401.pdf

Apart from the refund rules changing, I haven't seen any other comment about changes. Does anyone know of any other changes in there?   (Still no 13.2)

 

A simple season/rover extension would not be defined as 'split tickets' although one could argue that they are. Split tickets definition generally involves two (or more) single/return journeys, rather than weekly or longer tickets.

However -

This would be a genuine split ticket journey, rather than a season ticket extension....so I would agree with you.

Yes - revenue protection did come through; I was not making use of this clause and did not feel inclined to raise it with them.
[/quote]

 
Administrator note:

We now have two - very well informed - topics here, which seem to relate to the same subject: changes to the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

I propose to merge them here, in the interests of clarity and continuity.

CfN.

 
Indeed, hence holding the new ones back - they come into force on April 1 and are NOT retrospective

 

So if I buy my ticket now for travel in April or May, I am subject to the current Conditions of Travel? After all, the contract between us is subject to the T&Cs at the time of purchase - the time the contract is made.

 
The updated NRCoT will only be released on April 1st, acording to National Rail - I asked.

 

I do wonder why the description of "via Taunton" isn't just changed to "any permitted" ... and that could have a lot of re-ticketing when a GWR train gets diverted via Yeovil!

 
Because they'd want to meet in the middle of the two fares so as not to lose farebox revenue, meaning the cheaper price rises....

 
I'm afraid my first reaction is "if making fares simpler is a priority, why on earth haven't they made both routes in Oxonhutch's example the same?"

Surely the same fare for all routes between two points cannot be difficult to put in place?

 
13.2 Worries me. And I have to wonder why?

Reading Exeter has two routes, via Honiton or Taunton - there is no 'Any permitted'.

The Man in Seat 61 uses this as an example as an on-train solution - Honiton is cheaper: if routing Taunton - just pay the excess.

If travelling Honiton with a Taunton fare, simply excess the difference - in this case an excess ticket with price £0.00.

The lack of 13.2 makes both ticket invalid. Bad move.

 
Conditions right, train manager wrong.

14.3 has not been withdrawn.

 
From current conditions of travel:


Bolding and capitalisation as per current NRCoT

Announcement by the train manager on the 15:30 ex Paddington on 24th March (2026) which I was travelling on "This train does not call as Didcot and if you are travelling on split tickets changing from one ticket to another there, your tickets will not be valid.   There is revenue protection on this train". 

Has clause 14.3 been withdrawn?    The announcement by the train manager seemed to ignore it. 

If making 2 return trips, both at peak times and using trains that do not call at Didcot, from Melksham to Paddington within a week, the lowest cost way has been a single to Didcot, a weekly season to Cholsey, a return from Cholsey to London an a further single Didcot to Melksham.  My understanding is that's within 14.3, but is contradicted by what the train manager said.

Yes - revenue protection did come through; I was not making use of this clause and did not feel inclined to raise it with them.

 

The copy I see / and have just downloaded from https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/NRCOT/ is also missing 13.2

The refund of unused tickets issue from 1st April has been heavily flagged - not that the news will have reached everyone who may have made use of the facility in the past. However, I have not been able to find a new NRCoT document, nor seen any re-assurance that there won't be other changes quietly slipped in - such as this omission of 13.2.   

It strikes me that it's normal for changes and official documents such as agenda items for meetings to be published at least a week ahead, and I find it extraordinary that I can't read what conditions will be applied to rail tickets I purchase from next Wednesday!

 
Thanks, Ralph Ayres and Mark A.

The wording in the original quote:

had me a bit worried, but the "Anytime" stipulation appears only in the conditions for changing Anytime tickets (yes - the wording is subtly different for different types of ticket).

Now, in trying to answer your the original question about changes that were formerly possible on-train, I discovered a problem with the latest NRCoT.  . To ensure it remains visible, I have put my find in a separate thread:
https://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=31796.0

 
I was looking for clauses on excess fares in the current (2025) National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT). I noticed that, compared with the 2024 version, a couple of significant clauses were missing from my PDF download. They are part of The Routes You May Use and are:


In the 2025 version, 13.1.2 is followed by two information boxes, then 13.3.


Firstly, would someone like to confirm that the omission is general, and not restricted to my copy of NRCoT?

 
Apologies, I should have provided one. The info is in a javascript window though, so, no link, and people need to call up the SWR ticket selling page, search for a journey. Once you have a ticket displayed, use the llnk to display the pop up window with information about that ticket. I can't recall the type of ticket that produces that particular paragraph - perhaps they all do. As an aside, that site isn't keen on selling return tickets (and often it's not keen to sell a bog standard open single, whether peak, off peak or that other sort of SWR off peak ticket - I no longer have sufficient head round SWR ticketing in order to understand/explain it.)

Mark

 
I Googled a key phrase.  SWR are simply quoting from the NRE list of changes for each ticket type on for example https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/tickets/sdr/ (you need to expand the Refunds and Charges block).  It should therefore be authoritative, albeit a little vague ("should be made" and "in most cases" are unhelpfully imprecise) and certainly doesn't cover a change of plan after starting a journey but while still within the coverage of the original ticket.  Can you pay for the extra bit on-train if a suitable member of staff is available?

Incidentally, the NRE website continues to be an absolute mess.  I can't work out how to reach that page via a menu, and if you do instead drill down the menu layers from the front page you reach similar but even less detailed pages also mentioning the changes, so there are multiple sources to maintain.  I'm amused also to see old ticket type names still in use behind the scenes; replace "SDR" in the link with "CDR" for instance and you get a page about Off-peak Day tickets.  (Now I'm down a real rabbit-hole; SVR also took me where I expected it to, as did SDS, SOS and others)

 
As they have to give 30 days notice, I suspect there aren't further changes.

I haven't yet seen a new full set anywhere either.

I'm still trying to find Mark A's quote on the SWT website as I don't believe it is part of NRCoT

 

Thank you.   Yes, that tells us about the conditions on ticket refunds.    It does not tell us if there are any other changes coming up ... I was looking for a complete new set.

 
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/help-and-assistance/compensation-and-refunds/refunds-change/

 
Various talks of changes to conditions of travel, on this thread and others, and yet the National Rail website where I would expect to find the definitive version - at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/NRCOT/ includes only the current and previous version.

I will be travelling next week. Where can I read the conditions that will apply to me?

 

Hello Mark. Would you be able to provide a link to the web page that you quoted?

Thanks...

 
How does this compare with the ticketting provisions of the National Rail Conditions of Travel, and if not, which is authoritative?

 
The quote below is from the South Western Railways ticket selling site. Does the paragraph indicate that some circumstances that were formerly able to be addressed by the train manager now need to be sorted by either ticket office staff or the online ticket selling site that sold the original ticket?

Mark

Changes:

A ticket will need to be changed in order to travel to a destination further than where it was purchased to, change the route of the ticket, change the class of travel from Standard Class to First Class, or change the date of travel.Changes to tickets purchased online should be made by the retailer from which the ticket was bought. Staffed station ticket offices can also make changes in most cases, provided that this is done before the start of the journey.NOTE: A change to the date of travel can only be made BEFORE the date on which the ticket becomes valid for travel. Other alterations such as changes to the route or class of travel will be subject to a suitable alternative Anytime product being available. In some cases, it may be cheaper to purchase a new ticket.

 
The opinion of Messrs Harris & Bowker (Green Signals Podcast), and one with which I completely agree, is that if this process change is designed to fix a known issue - that of used but unscanned digital tickets being submitted for refund - then this is not the correct way to go about it; our government repeatedly tells us that the GBR run railways are going to become more cost effective and passenger customer focussed but all this does is inconvenience those whose travel plans unexpectedly change and/or, possibly, persuade people to buy cheaper Advance tickets (=less revenue) the day before a confirmed journey, or even worse make the use of the car a better option. A more sensible approach would be to ensure that, where installed, ticket gates are always active and, failing that, get the on-train staff to check tickets much more regularly than is presently the case.   

 
Yes there is - reduced however from an hour to 15 minutes.

 
From yesterday - at Westbury at 19:00



and I'm a bit shocked by this:



Of an evening, why are the "popular" top level tickets the anytime ones for London (and yet off peak for Weymouth?)

Other walk up return adult no-railcard no-split fares to Paddington from Westbury - are available at £53.20, £71.20, £71.70, £77.40, £78.00, £84.00, £94.00, £94.90, £104.70, £110.40, and £226.80.  As from April 1st, if someone accidentally click on the "Popular" front fare (popular with whom?) and buys that ticket, there's no "oops - bought the wrong one" option as I read it, even if they walk across to the (open?) ticket office and admit their error.

 
 Suspect not - everyone would very quickly be using it....events that coud be backed up by proof in writing like an A&E visit...

 

I guess (or would hope!), that this falls within 'exceptional circumstances' after 1st April

 

The reasoning is logical in terms of ticket fraud - though it does tell us something about the system which does not routinely check ticket validity when travelling, and leaves space for such fraud.   Mind you, there are other countries where ticket checking is not routine, but where people tend to follow the rules because either they are more law abiding, or more afraid of being putatively caught.

Whether the old refund-even-when-validity-started was correct is a different and interesting discussion.  I have only (personally) made use of it once that I can recall - having bought a ticket for someone staying with us, but on the morning she was headed for Manchester, plans were changed on a family crisis.  I was actually pleasantly surprised I could get my money back, even though validity had started.

 
If you purchase a walk-up ticket (from any retailer) on or after 1st April 2026, you will no longer be able to submit it for a refund once the ticket becomes valid for travel - although 'certain exceptional conditions'  will still allow you to do so.

Just to complicate matters - if you purchase a walk-up ticket before 1st April for travel after that date, then you will still be able to submit the ticket for a refund after 1st April under the current conditions.

I understand that this is to counter ticket fraud, where unchecked tickets or tickets not put through an automatic barrier have been submitted for refunds, despite the ticket holder having travelled.

I'm guessing that the 'certain exceptional conditions' will include (but not necessarily limited to).... Disruption resulting in the ticket holder not starting or abandoning the journey; health conditions where the holder is unable to travel, etc. Whether guidelines will be published or the decision left to the discretion of the retailer, I do not know.