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Author Topic: Revenue Protection at Stations  (Read 21740 times)
Gordon the Blue Engine
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« on: May 01, 2014, 18:38:55 »

Well there were 6 ticket inspecting staff + our own lady from Pangbourne booking office on Pangbourne down platform this morning ready to meet the 0931 arrival from Paddington.  I'm all for revenue protection but this seems a bit heavy - they probably outnumbered the number of passengers getting off!

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grahame
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 19:21:36 »

Well there were 6 ticket inspecting staff + our own lady from Pangbourne booking office on Pangbourne down platform this morning ready to meet the 0931 arrival from Paddington.  I'm all for revenue protection but this seems a bit heavy - they probably outnumbered the number of passengers getting off!

Yes, it seems a bit heavy ... but then I witnessed an incident about 10 days ago where a two-to-one RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) presence failed to apprehend a person who's behaviour was giving a strong indication that he hadn't got a ticket.  Perhaps it's more effective to have six on one day and none on another that 2 on 3 days.
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thetrout
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2014, 18:14:33 »

There were Revenue Protection Inspectors at Westbury station a couple of weeks back... Took me completely by surprise because I wasn't expecting to see them there. thetrout was in it's own little world and was brought back to reality with a bump as they clocked me like a hawk - getting out of First Class off the 15:23 Taunton - London Paddington at Westbury.

Fortunately all my ticket arrangements were in order as the TVM (Ticket Vending Machine) at Frome was working for a change... However I didn't fancy my chances too much if I didn't have a ticket despite the 15:23 calling at Frome where I boarded; A station that is NOT in the Penalty Fares scheme!

I'll no doubt make a post for the day the TVM isn't working and the RPIs (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) are there again and spot me alighting Coach G ticketless Roll Eyes Lips sealed Embarrassed Cheesy
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2014, 18:26:29 »

... thetrout was in it's own little world and was brought back to reality with a bump as they clocked me like a hawk ...

Do hawks actually hunt for trout?  Tongue  I think it's the bears you need to look out for.  Wink
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
ellendune
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2014, 18:27:17 »

... thetrout was in it's own little world and was brought back to reality with a bump as they clocked me like a hawk ...

Do hawks actually hunt for trout?  Tongue  I think it's the bears you need to look out for.  Wink

Osprey are fish eaters
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2014, 18:33:35 »

You're quite right: watch out for these, trout.  Tongue
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2014, 19:12:05 »

On a few occasions I have seen RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) staff en-masse meeting evening services from London at Thatcham. By en-masse I mean 6 or 7 of them.

I think on at least one occasion they must have had a tip off because there was one passenger who refused to co-operate and it took 6 RPI staff to restrain him but that is just speculation on my part



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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2014, 09:51:39 »

Good grief! What on Earth was he doing that 6 people needed to restrain him?  Shocked
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2014, 11:12:38 »

Good grief! What on Earth was he doing that 6 people needed to restrain him?  Shocked

He was refusing to cooperate with the RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) team and was trying to get away cooperating.

The RPI team were equally reluctant to let him go - and they have my support on that.
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paul7575
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 11:37:10 »

A couple of years back I watched SWT (South West Trains) do a full revenue block at Eastleigh, (a pretty remarkable hole in their ticket barrier strategy if you ask me - a bit like Fratton).   I reckon they had at least 8 uniformed staff working in pairs at the platform entrance, a few PCSOs , a few BTP (British Transport Police), and extra plain clothes personnel at platform ends and outside in the carpark to catch people vaulting over the wall - and I saw a couple of failed attempts at this by people getting off the same train.

Paul
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 13:08:44 »

Good grief! What on Earth was he doing that 6 people needed to restrain him?  Shocked

He was refusing to cooperate with the RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) team and was trying to get away cooperating.

The RPI team were equally reluctant to let him go - and they have my support on that.

Are they allowed to do that? Were there Police present? After all I don't think RPIs have the right to arrest/detain people against their will? (but am happy to be corrected!)
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paul7575
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 14:55:35 »

AIUI (as I understand it) from discussions elsewhere the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 as amended;  Section 5(2) allows this.

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If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses [F4or fails] on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company F5. . . may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.

I have heard that most railway staff are advised not to try this, but the basic point of law still exists.

Paul
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2014, 16:56:33 »

Good grief! What on Earth was he doing that 6 people needed to restrain him?  Shocked

He was refusing to cooperate with the RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) team and was trying to get away cooperating.

The RPI team were equally reluctant to let him go - and they have my support on that.

Are they allowed to do that? Were there Police present? After all I don't think RPIs have the right to arrest/detain people against their will? (but am happy to be corrected!)

I can't remember if there were any BTP (British Transport Police) present - it is possible but too long who to be sure
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SDS
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2014, 21:40:24 »

Good grief! What on Earth was he doing that 6 people needed to restrain him?  Shocked

He was refusing to cooperate with the RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) team and was trying to get away cooperating.

The RPI team were equally reluctant to let him go - and they have my support on that.

Are they allowed to do that? Were there Police present? After all I don't think RPIs have the right to arrest/detain people against their will? (but am happy to be corrected!)

I can't remember if there were any BTP (British Transport Police) present - it is possible but too long who to be sure

Yes in theory any railway servant is allowed to 'detain' someone under RRA89 who fails the "3 fails", fails to provide a ticket, fails to pay for the journey and fails to provide a name and address.  However PACE» (Police & Criminal Evidence Act - about) starts to make it more complicated. PACE Code C springs to mind here.

You also have 26A of PACE which allows any person other than a constable to make an arrest in certain circumstances.

However most TOCs (Train Operating Company) fail to mention this to staff and the very few that are told are told not to use it.
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TonyK
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2014, 17:35:22 »

AIUI (as I understand it) from discussions elsewhere the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 as amended;  Section 5(2) allows this.

Quote
If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses [F4or fails] on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company F5. . . may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.

I have heard that most railway staff are advised not to try this, but the basic point of law still exists.

Paul

I saw this in action at Birmingham New Street once, in the subtle way. One of those passengers who don't need a ticket or pass got very angry with the conductor, who had unreasonably suggested he did, and asked for a fare. The conductor was about half the size of the passenger, so after futile discussion, the conductor left the carriage. On arrival at BHM, the doors remained closed for a couple of minutes, until two burly men in yellow serge arrived on the platform, one each end of the carriage. Our special passenger's smug grin vanished when he realised this reception committee was for him.

When in a hole, stop digging, my grandmother always said. In fact, throw the shovel away. Had our man obeyed this dictum, he may well have got away with a penalty fare, but he decided, to the amusement of all, to have a go at the cops. The Darbies were produced and applied. Our man left the platform with his head held, and his feet held even higher.

Easier in a big station with a permanent BTP (British Transport Police) presence than some lonely halt mid-nowhere, but CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) can be used, and our staff need not put themselves in danger again.
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