More TVM overcharging

[whole diary]

[Trowres]

Back in 2015 there was a thread about ticket vending machines...

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15230.msg170095#msg170095

Fast forward to 2017, and three intending passengers faced with a closed ticket office, but a ticket machine available.

As it was Saturday, there would be no time restrictions on the use of off-peak day returns. So, no reason why the machine should offer Anytime Day Returns. But of course, it did, and that's what the passengers selected.  They didn't know that peak times did not apply on Saturday.

Worse, had the machine guided the passengers to the correct off-peak day return, it could have offered them Group Save (can GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)'s do that now?). So, quite a large difference between what the passengers paid, and what they should have paid.

Can it be too difficult to program the machines with a rule such as "don't offer Anytime Day returns on Sat/Sun/ Bank Hols"

[ChrisB]

There are some routes that don't have off-peak fares.

[ChrisB]

Hmm. Maybe I meant sone journeys...usually short, cheap ones

[Trowres]

Hmm. Maybe I meant sone journeys...usually short, cheap ones

Ah, yes, I had forgotten that one.

Short journeys, like... Salisbury-Swansea. Anytime Return £56.00; Anytime Day Single £41.50.

I wonder how hard people would try looking for the off-peak ticket on the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)... in vain, as there isn't an off-peak fare (except advance).

[grahame]

Really sad how little has changed ... still issues (Melksham at least) with off peak rather than super off peak to London being offered from the front screen on Saturday morning.  The super off peak ticket IS available but it takes 7 key stokes to find and select it, versus one for off peak, and you have to know where to navigate.  Groupsave not available when I last looked (and it does say so in the list of "this machine does not sell".

No rule that TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) have to offer lowest prices ticket, or a complete range - those rules apply to staffed ticket counters only, and provided you buy your groupsave at the earliest opportunity (i.e. on the train if there's only a limited TVM) you're ok. But the system does seem designed to provide best fares for the 2% of us sad cases who spend time studying the systems, and to provide valid (but not always the best value) for the other 98%.

There are some routes that don't have off-peak fares.

Hmm. Maybe I meant sone journeys...usually short, cheap ones

That is no justification for not offering off-peak fares (or super off peak) for journeys that do have them!

[ChrisB]

You said they were available, just not on the front screen?

I pointed out, bearing in mind that the software is universal across similar TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)-land, that it can't be asked to dusplay all off-peak fares at a weekend as some journeys don't gave OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) fares to display. There is also a limit to the number of fares able to be displayed on one screen.

It isnt difficult to display all fares to kne destination. As long as all fares can be found against each station, I think that's reasonable. What is required is a complete redesign, but thats a different thread

[Trowres]

As long as all fares can be found against each station, I think that's reasonable.

Maybe. Perhaps the unreasonableness comes from the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) (and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) considering the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) to be an adequate substitute for a manned ticket office; particularly as having the wrong ticket is associated with various threats of penalty fares and so on.

[ChrisB]

Can't disagree with that.

[Richard Fairhurst]

In the meantime, it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to put up a poster by the ticket machines explaining the issue, and saying "if you're travelling at this time, press these buttons".

[Timmer]

In the meantime, it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to put up a poster by the ticket machines explaining the issue, and saying "if you're travelling at this time, press these buttons".

You could but sadly people don't read things.

[eightf48544]

Surely the rule is that TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) must ofer the cheapest ticket for the journey. So they are breaking their franchise agreement.

[ChrisB]

Only from ticket offices I believe?

[grahame]

Surely the rule is that TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) must ofer the cheapest ticket for the journey. So they are breaking their franchise agreement.

Only from ticket offices I believe?

Correct, ChrisB.   No franchise or legal obligation on TOCs as to what they offer on TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine).  They could (technically) decide only to sell any time singles.  Silly idea?  It's been done before:

[Fourbee]

No rule that TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) have to offer lowest prices ticket, or a complete range - those rules apply to staffed ticket counters only, and provided you buy your groupsave at the earliest opportunity (i.e. on the train if there's only a limited TVM) you're ok.

Looking at 6.3 of the NRCOT^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Travel) I cannot find the paragraph that permits this (i.e. no/closed ticket office and the ticket you want is not on the TVM so just get on)?

[ChrisB]

if there was a requirement to show all fares, then the ticket you wanted would be there and there would be no point in that para?

NRCOT^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Travel) has what *must* be present, not what doesn't need to be.