Southeastern raises the axe

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Just read an article about the new "High" Speed trains in Kent. For most commuters, however, journey times are longer to get to the West End, Westminster or The City, as St Pancras is further away from Victoria, Charing Cross or Cannon Street respectively. They will have to take the Tube - adding time, money and stress.

Services on domestic lines are being reduced - as much as 60% in places. Semi-fast services are being AXED to get longer distance commuters onto the Javelin trains FORCING them to pay 35 % higher fares!

Most journeys from north Kent will be 1 minute slower (to a London terminus) than now (2 minutes slower than the 1960s).

Journeys from East Kent will be quicker, but ONLY is they pay the premium, otherwise they will be SLOWER and LESS FREQUENT.

Some commuters in London are angry that they have paid an EXTRA 8% to pay for a service in Kent which is the cause of a REDUCTION in service in London.

_{Source: thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23615659-details/140mph+Javelin+train+not+as+fast+as+it+seems/article.do}

[Btline]

What do people think. I hope the following occurs - no-one uses the Javelin:

- they either cram onto the normal trains, causing worse overcrowding - cue the press

- or the drive, causing even worse traffic congestion

until SE reinstate the axed services.

- and they perform a fares strike

until Southeastern reduce the fares to at least the same as a normal service.

Normally I am against fares strikes but this is different.

Commuters can barely afford to current prices. Commuters are happy with their hour long journey if they can afford it. They won't be happy with either a shorter or longer journey of they can't. SE are basically forcing many people to pay 35 % more.

[Electric train]

I have a number of colleges who travel into Waterloo East to work who are being goaded into traveling to St Panc jet they work in Waterloo.

I am not sure what is going to happen to the SE stock I would not mind betting is going to be cascaded to elsewhere

[Btline]

But SE will find they need the stock.

Even if people grit their teeth and go on the Javelin, trains will fill up and cater for passenger growth.

And any rolling stock that happens to become free will be hoovered up by the Thameslink Programme!

[super tm]

Why all the fuss over the price rises.  This sort of thing has happened before for example london to reading is about twice the price from Paddington than Waterloo.

Season tickets on the East Coast are more expensive mile for mile than West Coast.  This reflects the superior service on the East Coast Mainline from its last upgrade.  The anomoly now is why they have not increased the West Coast Mainline season tickets now that it has been upgraded.

[Btline]

Its not the rises on their own, it is the fact that people are being forced to pay them, as normal services are being axed.

[Lee]

The row over this has been rumbling for several years now, since the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) announced their original plans. Campaigners have had a fair degree of success in curbing some of the worst features of what was first proposed.

However, a number of stations will receive a drop in frequency of some description, and quite a drastic one in certain cases. CANBER^▸ (Campaign Against the New Beeching Report) will be keeping a close eye on how things pan out.

I am going to highlight three of our "ones to watch" :

EAST MALLING - Currently receives 1 train per hour to London Victoria and Maidstone East. However, nothing is shown off-peak from December 2009.

BELTRING and SWALE - Both stations were proposed for closure by the SRA. CANBER has a written undertaking from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) that they will not progress the closure plans. We will continue to monitor the situation closely, though.

[eightf48544]

Once again it appears that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) considers that we should all be grateful we get a train service at all and that they will run the services they want.

Somewhere on this board is very interesting thread on rail services and social engineering.

It concerned people who had based their work home journey on the through Bristol Oxford trains which were abrutly withdrawn one time table change.

Once again we see the DfT taking no account of the pattern of commuting that has grown up in Kent and has been suduced by being able to say we've got faster commuter trains than you to the World.

The fact that in provinding them totally disrupts the work home journey of thousands of people who have chosen to live and work where they do, to make use of exisitng services, doesn't come into the equation.

On smaller scale Crossrail will bring considerable disruption to people who now Commute from Twyford and stations westwards to Slough and stations to Ealing Broadway. Whereas they now have through trains after Craossrail tehy will have an enforced change at Maidenhead or Slough. 

Hopefully the Javlins will empty, which means, of course, we the taxpayer will have to compensate the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company). Funny I thought privatisation was meant to pass the risk to the private sector.

 

[bemmy]

Once again it appears that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) considers that we should all be grateful we get a train service at all and that they will run the services they want.

Somewhere on this board is very interesting thread on rail services and social engineering.

It concerned people who had based their work home journey on the through Bristol Oxford trains which were abrutly withdrawn one time table change.

Once again we see the DfT taking no account of the pattern of commuting that has grown up in Kent and has been suduced by being able to say we've got faster commuter trains than you to the World.

The fact that in provinding them totally disrupts the work home journey of thousands of people who have chosen to live and work where they do, to make use of exisitng services, doesn't come into the equation.

No, because all public transport "improvements" in this country are to impress people who don't use them.

Hopefully the Javlins will empty, which means, of course, we the taxpayer will have to compensate the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company). Funny I thought privatisation was meant to pass the risk to the private sector.

No it's meant to provide a guaranteed profit for the private sector, while the risk remains with the taxpayer. That's why privatisation has been so attractive to governments and their entrepreneurial friends for the last 30 years.

Can anyone tell me if any of the TOC's have ever posted an annual loss? All I ever hear about is profits, even in years where the operator in question has provided an abysmal service which can't even be blamed on the likes of Network Rail or God.

[Btline]

I, too, hope the Javelins run empty!

Hopefully, commuters in Kent will start a campaign to persuade as many people as possible to avoid them.

Govia are using their monopoly (only company in/near Kent, and the roads are all jammed) to hike fares 35% and axe services. This should be illegal, and the only way we will stop them, is if commuters vote with their feet.

[Trowres]

Hopefully this will give some food for thought to a number of people who uncritically support plans for high speed lines.

[grahame]

Can anyone tell me if any of the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s have ever posted an annual loss? All I ever hear about is profits, even in years where the operator in question has provided an abysmal service which can't even be blamed on the likes of Network Rail or God.

I think parent companies have (Sea Containers), but in practise the train operating end is protected by "Cap and Collar" arrangements:

http://www.canber.co.uk/?q=node/32

[John R]

Govia are using their monopoly (only company in/near Kent, and the roads are all jammed) to hike fares 35% and axe services. This should be illegal, and the only way we will stop them, is if commuters vote with their feet.

I believe this was part of their franchise commitment, if not set out in the specification for the franchise. So I don't think it's Govia who is to blame but (guess who), DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about).

But I agree that what at first sight seemed a positive improvement now appears to be nothing but the sort.

 

[Btline]

Yes, fair enough, the blame may not lie with Govia/ SE.

But surely SE realise what is going to happen?

[eightf48544]

Yes, fair enough, the blame may not lie with Govia/ SE.

But surely SE realise what is going to happen?

Yes they do know what's going to happen but they are not worried as the money will still roll in either from fare hikes and/or the taxpayer.