Ticket Machines - machines missing or broken, and penalty fare implications (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[Lee]

Details & reaction contained in the link below.
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1319.msg3712#msg3712

[MikeGTN]

I cannot see this working at unstaffed stations hereabouts.

In the Southeastern area the machines generally supplement a booking office, and provide relief at busy times. However, passengers still have the option to speak with a human being to pick their way through the over-complex minefield of fares, peak time restrictions and travel conditions to obtain the correct ticket for their journey. Whilst the new ticket machines are slightly smarter (they in theory won't offer non-valid tickets such as Cheap Day Returns until the appropriate time) they still offer a bewildering array of tickets for the same journey. This is before we even start to consider accessibility issues for partially sighted users for example.

On the basis that I don't think others should travel free when I've paid, I'd have no objection to the Permit to Travel system being used, provided the machines are maintained and operate quickly enough to clear a queue of passengers in the peak.

[Graz]

I personally feel the 'Permit to travel' system is much fairer than ladelling the 'Don't have a ticket? YOU'LL PAY A FINE, YOU CRIMINAL!!' system on, which FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is doing. While I agree it will lower fare evasion quite a bit, I personally, as a fare paying passenger find it intimidating and will be vary wary to get on the train should the ticket machine not be working. I personally would have kept the old system, and made sure the conductors on the train were vigilant in collecting fares when the office is shut.

[whistleblower]

I've got a four page briefing for staff about the Penalty Fares to be introduced on 31st March.  These are not secret and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will be trying to communicate the info to all passengers over the next month.  But you may find it easier to read it here than on a windy station platform in the cold and the wet  

It's a four page brief so I'll try and pick out the salient points and if you want to know more, just ask and I'll try to answer your questions.  Italics indicate a direct quote from the briefing.

Penalty Fares are intended to encourage passengers to buy a ticket before they board our services.
New areas to be covered are basically commuter routes centred on Reading, Bristol and Exeter.  Most stations will be included but not all.  Some are too small to have a ticket machine and if you travel from those stations you will be exempt from the scheme.

A Penalty Fare is due when a passenger boards a Penalty Fares Train within a Penalty Fares area without having previously paid their fare OR when a passenger is found in a Compulsory Ticket Area without having paid for a ticket.  (A small number of our stations are designated Compulsory Ticket Areas. It does not matter whether the station is gated or not).

How much is the penalty?  The penalty covers the distance from the station where you boarded to the next station STOP.  You would be penalised ^20 (or twice the single fare (whichever is greater)) to that next stop PLUS the undiscounted single fare from THAT stop to your final destination.  You can travel from a station outside the Penalty Fares Area to one within it and you won't be penalised.  If you are travelling from a Penalty Fares station to one outside you'll only have to pay if you are caught inside the PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) Area.

OK - Who's going to be brave enough to demand ^20 from you when it's raining, the train's late and shortformed and you are squeezed in the toilet with three other people?  Not me, that's for sure.  Only an Authorised Penalty Fares Collector with an official badge and special training can do so  - not the conductors or ticket sellers.  They may be checking on the train or at ticket barriers.  What happens if you do board a train without a ticket and ask the conductor to sell you one?  Well, if there's no Authorised Collector around, the conductor CAN sell you a ticket but has to issue a verbal warning that you WOULD have been penalised if there was somebody to do it.

Two relevant points to consider.  For the first month (April) penalties will not be issued - just warnings.  But be aware of this nasty one: If you receive a Penalty Fare you have to give your name and address which will be registered on a database.  That database will be consulted by phone whenever somebody is penalised and if it is a subsequent offence you will not be issued with more penalty fares.  The intention is to prosecute for the offence of fare evasion which is a criminal offence.  We actually prosecute around 50 people every week

Well, I hope that helps prepare you for what to expect come 31st March.  Please don't blame me or my colleagues, we don't like it any more than you do. I don't like the way that it dehumanises life.  If you have a bit of trouble (i.e running late, car wouldn't start, kids playing up) it'd be nice to know that somebody might help instead of turning you into a criminal.  Oh well - we'd better blame the fare dodgers, I guess.  Sorry for the glum news

[Jim]

So, will passengers details be taken if they get PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d during April?

[whistleblower]

So, will passengers details be taken if they get PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d during April?

The briefing says that only warnings will be given, so I would say not.

[Jim]

They have installed ONE fasticket at Trowbridge, but isn't on yet, let alone in Service

[whistleblower]

Official information on the introduction of Penalty Fares has now been posted on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) website.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1042

There is also a downloadable PDF map which shows which stations are exempt.

[grahame]

As a regular (i.e. often) but irregular (i.e. no particular route most of the time) traveller, I'm going to have one heck of a job knowing when I have to search out a machine and when I have no chance of finding one and should just get on the machine.  Will ALL stations be marked well, in and out of the zones?

I note that Swindon and Didcot are both in penalty fare zones but the line between them is NOT - what is the significance of this exclusion?  Can anyone explain?

[Jim]

You can see that they have not put fasttickets at stations that are likely to have them vandilised though! Look at Weston Milton & Stapleto RD especially

[MikeGTN]

As of the end of the last working day of March, the majority of ticket machines between Bristol and Taunton appear to remain out of commission.

I can only assume a peek at the great black shrouds covering them all will convince guards that the passenger had no opportunity to buy before boarding!

[Graz]

I passed Oldfield Park today, and right next to the entrance to the walkway of Platform 1 was a big, ominous, yellow and black sign:

WARNING!
^20 FINE

I mean it's all well and good doing this, but I feel it's scare tactics gone mad and will drive many people away. Couldn't they just have put friendlier looking signs on the platform?

[Jim]

Still only got 2 RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))'s in the wilts area!


Personally, I think if a PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) scheme is going to work, all stations need to be under the same rules, like SWT^▸ (South West Trains), EVERY station now excpet West Of Salisbury is PF zone, which is how to do it, not make half the stations exempt

[Jim]

Right, we only have a few weeks left before this is proper penalty fares (with all 4 on train RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))'s!) & we are npw just under a month after the 'big switch on' of the 'fastickets' but how many of them work? So, when you are on you travels, if you see 1, lets us now wether it is working or even switched on & we can see how orginsied this is going to be!

I will get the ball rolling

Trowbridge - Out of Service
Warminser (P1 & 2) - Out of Service

[grahame]

I like the way there's a huge sign at Trowbridge that says "Tickets over the Bridge" (or words to that effect) just a few yards from the only ticket machine.  If I were a newcomer to Trowbridge, followed the directions, failed to find anywhere to buy my ticket would they still penalise me?