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eightf48544
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« Reply #2325 on: January 21, 2017, 21:26:18 » |
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The wires are up over Maidenhead Bridge. not heard any comments yet!
It may not surprise readers to know that there is a negative comment about it on the Goring Gap Facebook page. Interesting but not yet in the Maidenhead Advertiser |
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Electric train
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« Reply #2326 on: January 22, 2017, 09:40:29 » |
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The wires are up over Maidenhead Bridge. not heard any comments yet!
It may not surprise readers to know that there is a negative comment about it on the Goring Gap Facebook page. That does not surprise me as the folk in Goring are looking every where and anywhere to back up their case, if they have to resort to the Sounding Arch as evidence they are on a weak footing the design was approved by English Heritage and the Local Authorities because of the Sounding Arch Grade 1 listing. The wires are up over Maidenhead Bridge. not heard any comments yet!
It may not surprise readers to know that there is a negative comment about it on the Goring Gap Facebook page. Interesting but not yet in the Maidenhead Advertiser It might get comments in the spring / summer when the good folks of S/Bucks and Maidenhead come out of hibernation  |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #2327 on: January 22, 2017, 10:49:50 » |
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Electricity pylons poles and wires, telephone wires, roads, satellite dishes, water treatment plants, hospitals, houses even, all detract from the natural appearance of things, but no one objects to those and the clear benefits they bring, so why should a few stanchions and wires on a railway be an issue if it ensures and fast, clean, reliable and robust service? Or should we just keep the 40 year old trains and continue the Thames valley infrastructure failure thread ad infinitum?! Oh, I object to electricity pylons (the enormous metal lattice things), and I'm not the only one. Some of the objections to wind turbines in mid Wales actually stem from the associated pylons. In my opinion, those wires should be burried; yes it costs more but it is a better way of providing 'the benefit they bring'. Obviously you cannot do that with rail electrification wires, but the structures carrying them do not have to be as bulky, blocky and ugly as the GWML▸ OHLE. It appears from some other electrified railways that it is perfectly possible to string up OHLE on relatively elegant supports, but sadly the GWML OHLE is anything but. A little visual clutter is necessary to get a modern, relatively clean, railway, but I'm not convinced that it needs to be as ugly as the GWML kit is. |
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 17:53:13 by Rhydgaled »
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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Tim
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« Reply #2328 on: January 23, 2017, 12:05:07 » |
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the structures carrying them do not have to be as bulky, blocky and ugly as the GWML▸ OHLE. It appears from some other electrified railways that it is perfectly possible to string up OHLE on relatively elegant supports, but sadly the GWML OHLE is anything but.
IMHO▸ the problem we have is that the design does not square the circle between a lightweight and therefore unreliable design and a bulky, heavyweight and therefore reliable design. I would argue that we could have a design that is both elegant and robust, but probably not easily done in the context of an off the shelf modular system which is what they have chosen. It was probably the right choice too as a bespoke design would be expensive and perhaps not reliable. |
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #2329 on: January 23, 2017, 14:00:28 » |
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The wires are up over Maidenhead Bridge. not heard any comments yet!
It may not surprise readers to know that there is a negative comment about it on the Goring Gap Facebook page. [/quote] [/quote] It might get comments in the spring / summer when the good folks of S/Bucks and Maidenhead come out of hibernation [/quote] Could you keep the noise down please? Some of us are trying to sleep. |
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #2330 on: January 27, 2017, 11:36:23 » |
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stuving
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« Reply #2331 on: January 31, 2017, 12:22:10 » |
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Here's something of an "I wonder what that really means" piece from the Bristol Post: Bristol may not get faster electric trains because of Bath
By The Bristol Post Posted: January 31, 2017
By Patrick Daly, Parliamentary Correspondent @thepatrickdaly
Bristol might not get faster trains to London after all – because the overhead electric cables could spoil the landscape in "historic" Bath, according to the Transport Secretary.
Ministers left the city stunned in November when they announced that the expected electrification of the line to Bristol Temple Meads would be delayed for as long as six years.
The cleaner and faster rail service to the capital had been due to be unveiled in 2018, but the Department for Transport pushed the upgrade work between Temple Meads and Bath Spa back into Network Rail's 2019-24 construction period.
The delay was blamed on spiralling costs, with the current £5.6 billion bill to electrify the Great Western line treble what was first estimated. Despite the setback for Bristol, Cardiff's electrification programme, which passes through Bristol Parkway station, would continue unabated, rail ministers confirmed.
Electrification work has been delayed by the Government until 2024
The DfT» promised MPs▸ that the decision was "not a cancellation" but Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has poured doubt over whether the track investment will ever be seen.
In an interview with the Bristol Post, Mr Grayling indicated that he felt overhead cables going through Bath could blight the city's landscape, while leading to only limited improvements in journey times.
The new trains being rolled out this year by route operator Great Western Railway will be dual-fuelled, meaning they can run on both electricity and diesel. The hybrid Hitachi trains, even without electrification between Bristol and Bath, will still shave 15 minutes off the journey to London, according to DfT.
Mr Grayling said: "The arrival of hybrid technology means we don't have to put up unsightly overhead lines in places where either you wouldn't want them, like historic Bath, or through attractive country areas where you are not getting the speed gains.
"And the truth is that [on] those routes into Bristol, new trains are arriving and will deliver the journey improvements anyway. So the question then becomes, do you have to put up electric cables through all of the route to deliver improvements?"
The Epsom and Erwell MP said the city should not get "hung-up" on whether it gets electrified trains, despite being the largest city along the Paddington to Cardiff Great Western route.
He said the "hundreds of millions" of pounds needed to electrify the line between Bristol and Bath could be reinvested into other transport projects, including MetroBus.
Great Western Railway's new Hitachi trains will be able to run on both diesel and electric track.
"The question is, if the train going through Bath is going to travel to Birmingham at exactly the same time, regardless of whether we have overhead cables or not, do we really want to spend hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money putting unsightly overhead cables through Bath? The new trains allow us to think differently about these projects," said the Cabinet minister.
"Bristol would feel rightly short-changed if it wasn't getting new trains and the benefits of journey time improvements. But it is.
"And actually, right now in Bristol, I want to look at ways of helping Bristol Metro[Bus] develop, I want to see smart ticketing around Bristol. Let's not get hung-up about the overhead lines right now, let's get hung-up about how we deliver a better service for passengers." Now, is that just the Grayling doing a bit of a Donald - giving a running commentary on his education, and so betraying how much it is needed? In this case, has someone just told him about the earlier studies on ways to cope with gaps in electrification, and he's got all over-excited? And what's that about trains via Bath to Birmingham? |
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #2332 on: January 31, 2017, 12:27:16 » |
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"The question is, if the train going through Bath is going to travel to Birmingham at exactly the same time" I knew that IEP▸ had an innovative traction package, but I hadn't realised Hitachi had successfully implemented Douglas Adams' Infinite Improbability Drive. |
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Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #2333 on: January 31, 2017, 13:13:48 » |
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"The question is, if the train going through Bath is going to travel to Birmingham at exactly the same time" I knew that IEP▸ had an innovative traction package, but I hadn't realised Hitachi had successfully implemented Douglas Adams' Infinite Improbability Drive. As fitted to the new Heart Of Gold Class Fourty Two perhaps !.... |
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Noggin
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« Reply #2334 on: January 31, 2017, 14:41:34 » |
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Won't repeat Stuving's quote to keep things neat, but someone is of course confusing Birmingham for Bristol.
I wonder if Grayling is trying to justify inaction by appealing to naysayers? i.e. he thinks the good folk of Bath are all against the nasty electric wires, and Bristolians would rather have the money spent on MetroBus? If that's his strategy, then he's even more politically tone deaf than I thought he was, or his staff are mis-advising him to try and get him reshuffled.
I rather suspect that Ben Howlett (Conservative MP▸ for Bath), Charlotte Leslie (C. Bristol NW), and Michelle Donelan (C. Chippenham) will have words to say as well. He may be technically correct that the 80x's can match the HST▸ times on the section, but of course electric trains accelerate even faster, are cheaper to build and run, are quieter and don't pollute (well, at least not along the route anyway). Not to mention that electrification would support a much better local service, plus potentially freight out of Portbury and Avonmouth.
If Mr Grayling really wants to buy Bristolians off in lieu of electrification then I would suggest that he needs to be talking about at least the redoubling of the Severn Beach line in addition to Portishead and the full Henbury loop.
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welshman
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« Reply #2335 on: January 31, 2017, 18:59:33 » |
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Failing Grayling again. He caused complete chaos at the MoJ, which was partly undone by Michael Gove (surprisingly). Now he's making a pig's breakfast, to coin a phrase, of the DoT and especially railways.
Apart from the practicalities, the postponement of public expenditure like this is economically illiterate. The job gets partly done and then the contracting team is disbanded and made redundant or goes elsewehere. When work resumes the cost increases again and there's more delay while the same arguments are rehearsed. 2030 here we come.
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onthecushions
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« Reply #2336 on: January 31, 2017, 23:04:51 » |
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At the risk of my personal safety, I will speak up for Grayling.
Faced with a GWEP▸ cost 3.6 times budget, repeated to lesser extents on other wirings (like Rugeley, x2) it was necessary to cobble together something of a working system within the money to hand. It is probably true that the DfT» is itself partly responsible, buying IEP▸ and allowing the revision of clearances but the high output (!) train and the GW▸ signal cables were likely down to NR» . The choice is reasonable, except for the steeply graded 3km Box tunnel, (track lowered in 2015?), involving largely level routes below 125mph. The IEP has saved the day and will now allow electric traction for trains terminating beyond the wires. Walmsley's Modern Railways article this month on bi-modding(?) the XC▸ voyagers is relevant.
What Grayling has forgotten is that electric traction (in bulk) will still have capacity, capital, energy, maintenance, reliability and amenity advantages. I imagine that both GWR▸ and NR will eventually tire of even Hitachi's diesels and find ways of extending the wires, even if partially. IEP also suggests other wiring opportunities such as the 30 mile hump from Newton Abbot to Laira on which, like Box, even IEP would struggle. A re-reading of the 1931 Weir report wouldn't hurt; the ECML▸ had a return of 7.2% against the WCML▸ of 2.5%, simply because the EC used its wires three times as much (Sec. 39).
I understand that the Shotts (Scotland) wiring contract is to be let; 75 track miles for £49M, so perhaps the industry can get it together after all.
Fingers crossed,
OTC
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eightf48544
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« Reply #2337 on: January 31, 2017, 23:12:30 » |
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Update towards 5th Feb when the big switch on occurs at Taplow.
The feeder wires which are above the gantries have been slung over the Relief line by Lent Rise bridge.
I've been volunteered to stand next to the old footbridge at Taplow Station to see how big a shock I get touching the metal!
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grahame
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« Reply #2338 on: February 02, 2017, 17:34:50 » |
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I wonder if Grayling is trying to justify inaction by appealing to naysayers? i.e. he thinks the good folk of Bath are all against the nasty electric wires, and Bristolians would rather have the money spent on MetroBus? If that's his strategy, then he's even more politically tone deaf than I thought he was, or his staff are mis-advising him to try and get him reshuffled.
I rather suspect that Ben Howlett (Conservative MP▸ for Bath), Charlotte Leslie (C. Bristol NW), and Michelle Donelan (C. Chippenham) will have words to say as well. ....
Of course, while there are people in Bath who don't want the wires, there are also people in Bath who want a reduction of pollutants which would come from the majority of train traffic being electric. Not sure of numbers in Bath, but take a look at this Bath Chronicle Article which refers to extra UK▸ deaths caused by bad air, and highlights where it's bad in Bath. |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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Noggin
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« Reply #2339 on: February 03, 2017, 13:48:12 » |
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What we also have to remember is that the GWML▸ electrification programme isn't just overhead wires - it's also extensive resignalling, trackwork and civil structures on a route that for much of it's length is amongst the oldest and most intensively worked in the world, including lots of listed structures, the Severn Tunnel and many of Brunel's practices were highly questionable by today's standards. And no-one in the UK▸ has electrified a mainline in a generation. So little wonder that it has come out a tad expensive.
On the other hand, with the benefit of experience, wiring a route in better physical condition that has been recently resignalled, that was built later, by a more conventional builder, less intensively worked and with fewer fiddly bits could well prove to be considerably less expensive.
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