Evening Fares - what is peak and offpeak?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

18:06, Paddington to Frome.  Packed to Twyford and much quieter beyond; I travelled on it last night all the way from London to Westbury (having just missed the only daily connection from Paddington to Melksham ...)

Board says "Off peak tickets valid to Bedwyn on this service" and on asking at the desk, they confirm that's the case. But that off peak tickets to Westbury are NOT valid.  First Question - why?   The train is pretty quiet beyond Bedwyn, and superoffpeak Bedwyn to Westbury is valid on it.

Ticket machines (queue far too long to buy from a real person in the time available) lists trains that you may use to Bedwyn on offpeak tickets between 16:30 and 19:30 ... does NOT include the 18:06, but does offer a mysterious 18:18. Second question - what is this 18:18 service?

Board wasn't clear about offpeak validity to anywhere except Bedwyn. Ticket desk wasn't reachable.  Ticket machine appeared to talk about phantom trains, and offered offpeak tickets to Bedwyn with a string of conditions and only "anytime"s to Westbury.  Clarification from a fare expert here would be a real help for next time.

[eightf48544]

Yet another example of our stupid fare system. There probably isn't an answer because nobodies thought of it and hasn't spotted that it's one  of the the numerous inconsistencies within the current system.

We all have collectively stopped thinking.

[super tm]

As you say this train is packed from Paddington.  If off peak tickets were allowed to Westbury and beyond then it would simply be unmanageable with the number of people who would want to get on going to Westbury Bath and Bristol etc.  Hence the restriction.

I will have a look at the ticket machines next time I am in Pad.  At guess I would say that they trains you can use has not been updated for a long time.  IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) there used to be a 1818 to Bedwyn but that was a few years ago.

[JayMac]

Interesting.

Good to see that the screens at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) are now giving correct advice regarding Off Peak validity to Bedwyn on the 1806.

Two weeks back though I still heard an announcement on board, prior to departure, stating that, "Off Peak tickets are not valid on this service."

[eightf48544]

What I don't understand is this is one of the few through trains to Frome.

Yet it seems to be providing a fast Twyford/ Henley service.

Surely logic would suggest that Off Peak tickets should be valid West of Bedwyn and that maybe Off peak tickets/Travelcards banned to Twyford. This would increase travel  to and from Frome and Westbury plus stations from Bath.

[BandHcommuter]

Board says "Off peak tickets valid to Bedwyn on this service" and on asking at the desk, they confirm that's the case. But that off peak tickets to Westbury are NOT valid.  First Question - why?   The train is pretty quiet beyond Bedwyn, and superoffpeak Bedwyn to Westbury is valid on it.

Ah, so next time I travel on the 1806 to Westbury, rather than spending ^79.50 on an anytime single, I should buy an off-peak single to Bedwyn (^24.40), and another one from Bedwyn to Westbury (^9.80). Total price ^34.20, a saving of ^45.30. 

Or wait for the 1833, which only gets in 10 minutes later, and the off peak single is valid (^34 I think). How complicated for the uninitiated 

I presume this anomaly goes back to the days when Thames Trains/FGW^▸ (First Great Western) link services were unrestricted in the evening peak, whereas the Intercity long distance were restricted. This train is a sort of hybrid that came out of integration (I guess its effectively an extension of the old 1747 to Bedwyn Turbo).

[eightf48544]

Is the 18:06 a Turbo?

Can't see anyone wanting to go all that way to Westbury if teh 18:33 is an HST^▸ (High Speed Train).

[autotank]

No it's an HST^▸ (High Speed Train). It always amazes me the amount of people that get off at Twyford - quite a lot of them then jam onto the 2 car Henley train!

[grahame]

Or wait for the 1833, which only gets in 10 minutes later, and the off peak single is valid (^34 I think).

Yes - except that you may find it hard to buy that fare at Paddington.   On Tuesday evening I just missed the 17:45 (change at Swindon for Melksham) which was the train I really wanted to use, and wasn't prepared to wait for the next connection. Heavy luggage meant I did not want to struggle with footbridge at Chippenham. TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) offered my only anytime single to Westbury.  Ticket office only had 3 desks open, none of which appeared to be moving quickly, and a long queue that I doubted would have me through in time to get anything remotely soon.

[WSW Frome]

Being nominally a resident of Frome (Currently viewing excessive sunshine over Baku Bay! Tough eh!), I have never really checked fare options for the 18.06 evening train. Usually regarded it as too expensive and wait for the later train.

However, on checking, the trick here is split tickets at Theale which then becomes ^16.40+9.80 (very reasonable). Same price to WSB^» (Westbury - next trains). These are non-advance tickets so provide some flexiblity. Similar tricks can be done for the 17.06 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-TRO^» (Trowbridge - next trains) etc. and for the morning equivalent trains. Here an advance ticket to Theale is required for best value. Some while ago the advance fare was ^3 but FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are clearly getting wiser. Theale stops are limited on the "IC^▸ (Inter City) trains" so NBY^» (Newbury - next trains) splits may need to be made instead.

I guess the absence of evening restriction continues to apply to all former NSE^▸ (Network South East) stations/services, out to Bedwyn, hence the messages Grahame received on his journey.     

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for those useful tips, WSW Frome - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! 

[dog box]

Off peak tickets are valid to all destinations on the 1806 Padd to Frome, whilst super off peak are not

[Ollie]

Off peak tickets are valid to all destinations on the 1806 Padd to Frome, whilst super off peak are not

Sorry but that is wrong.

The 18:06 is only Off Peak for stations between Paddington and Bedwyn, if beyond Bedwyn an Anytime ticket is required.

[thetrout]

But in theory, you could split at Bedwyn perhaps?! Or would an Anytime ticket be required from Bedwyn - Frome?

[JayMac]

Off peak tickets are valid to all destinations on the 1806 Padd to Frome, whilst super off peak are not

And still we have staff who do not know what is and isn't valid. 

What hope Joe Public?

Not a slight on you, dogbox. Your erroneous post just perfectly highlights the complexity in the system. That said, if I need to travel out of Paddington on the 1806 beyond Bedwyn in the near future I'll look to see if you are the TM^‡(resolve).