Follow up - M5 Crash 04/11/2011

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

M5 crash: Firework display is 'major line of inquiry'

Police probing the M5 crash which killed seven people have said a firework display next to the road is the "major line of inquiry".

Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Bangham, of Avon and Somerset Police, said he was focusing on the event held on Friday night. He said "a bank of smoke" was across the M5 at the time of the crash.

The Highways Agency hopes to have two lanes on the southbound carriageway around junction 25 open by 17:00 GMT. The agency says the northbound carriageway will probably be closed until Monday morning. The spokesman added that there were delays of three hours on the alternative northbound routes, and asked motorists to avoid the area.

The 34-vehicle pile-up happened at junction 25, near Taunton, at about 20:30 GMT on Friday. Some 51 people were injured in the pile-up, which happened on the northbound carriageway. The motorway closed between junctions 24 and 25 after the crash.

Mr Bangham said people who attended the fireworks display, which was staged by Taunton Rugby Club, would be interviewed by officers.

"Our main line of inquiry has now moved towards the event that was on the side of the carriageway," he said. "We do believe that whilst there was fog and difficult conditions in the area, that actually from witness evidence there was very significant smoke across the carriageway that in effect caused a bank, similar to a fog bank, which was very distracting and very difficult to drive through. We will be doing everything we can to find out as quickly as we're able to what's behind that."

He said: "Accountability is clearly something we will look at when you've had have an incident such as this."

Mr Bangham said the major crime teams and collision investigators from the road policing unit were working on the investigation. "If there's going to be a joint investigation then it is a crime investigation as well as a road policing investigation," he said.

Mr Bangham said the investigation will look at how the fireworks event was organised, what permission was given for it and what was and was not meant to be happening.

Taunton Rugby Club earlier made no comment on the matter, but confirmed the display had taken place between 20:00 and 20:15 GMT on Friday.

All the vehicles involved in the crash have now been removed from the scene. Police said a 40m (131ft) stretch of the carriageway had been damaged by fuel spillage and a 60m (197ft) stretch by "intense fire".

Of the injured, 25 were taken to Yeovil District Hospital, 17 of the more seriously injured are being treated at Musgrove Park Hospital in Taunton and nine were treated at the scene.

Twenty-three of those taken to Yeovil have since been discharged.

Musgrove Park Hospital said four people had been discharged and 12 were still being treated.

Police have not confirmed the age or sex of the people killed but Mr Bangham said four of the casualties had been in one vehicle.

Hundreds of people have paid tribute to the dead and injured and their families on Facebook.

Prayers for the victims, their families and the emergency services and medical staff were also said during mass at Taunton Catholic Church.

In the nearby town of Bridgwater about 1,000 people observed a minute's silence at the carnival statue at 12:00 GMT on Sunday.

Edited to split thread and change title

[Super Guard]

I see the road campaigners have been out in force about the talk of 80mph speed limit increase.

The BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) have also outlined various stats here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15620146

However, as RichardWarwicker has pointed out in the previous thread, it wasn't safe to be driving at 70mph, and even with an increase to 80mph, lorries would never be driving at this speed either.

Perhaps we should consider the French view of increasing the limit to ~80mph when the conditions allow and reduce to ~60mph when needed.

I have no end of sympathy for those affected directly by the crash, however I think it is wrong that this will be used as a bit of red herring by road safety groups, when maintaining a 70mph speed limit will make no difference to the shocking outcome of this crash if the same circumstances conspired again.

On a more railway topic - I wonder if any train drivers will be questioned by Police who drove under the M5/past Taunton rugby club around the time of the incident, as surely their view may have been impeded too?

[grahame]

Paragraph 126 of the Highway code requests that you ...

Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.

But as I understand it, on rail that rule applies only to tramways / light rail.  Signalling systems allow faster speeds on heavy rail, with the only "slowing down because you can't see" requirement being if conditions are so awful that the signals can't be see.  And perhaps even that can be relaxed with ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.)?

Reading back, I may have missed your point and added another one.  It would certainly seem appropriate, considering the questions raised on conditions in the area, for the police and investigators to learn from other transport drivers who were in the area at the time, and doubly so to learn from train drivers as they may offer a better objectivity by not being quite to emotionally attached to the dreadful road business.

[LiskeardRich]

Off at a slight tangent and not sure if its been mentioned in the other thread. What's everyone's thoughts on the modern safety features on newer cars that may of helped to reduce the number of fatalities in this accident?

[broadgage]

Air bags, seat belts, crumple zones, anti lock brakes, and other safety features undoubtedly increase the chances of survival in a road crash.
However some authorities state that such safety features encourage excessive speed, "why allow ample stopping distance ? with anti lock brakes you can drive faster" Is a view expressed by some drivers.

I feel that many drivers go much too fast in adverese conditions, 70MPH or even more might be OK in fine weather, but a lot drive at that speed in poor visibility, or on ice.

[woody]

MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) asks for road link talks after M5 crash http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/MP-asks-road-link-talks-M5-crash/story-13796249-detail/story.html

[JayMac]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

M5 crash: Vigil held for victims near scene in Somerset

A vigil has been held exactly a week after a crash that killed seven people on the M5 in Somerset.

Thirty-four vehicles were involved in the crash at junction 25 on 4 November. Fifty-one people were injured.

Taunton Lord Mayor Steve Brooks spoke at the vigil, held on Friday evening close to the crash site at Hankridge, and said it was time to reflect.

He also thanked the emergency services, hospital staff and members of the public who helped out.

"Without their actions other lives may have been lost that night," he added.

Minute's silence

The Reverend Rod Corke, Vicar of St Mary Magdalene Church in Taunton, introduced the private service, held at Sainsbury's car park, which was attended by more than 100 emergency workers and relatives of those killed or injured.

Hymns were then sung, accompanied by members of the Salvation Army.

The Archdeacon of Taunton, The Venerable John Reed, offered prayers for those who died, their loved ones and the emergency services.

"Those that were there will have a very raw mental image of what happened and that's going to take a very long time to work through," he said. "We must keep a watchful alert for their feelings because we cannot know what it's like for them. We must do what we can to share and carry."

At 20:25 GMT, the time of the accident a week previously, a minute's silence was held.

Afterwards, a number of floral tributes were left on the motorway embankment.

Those killed in the crash on 4 November were lorry drivers Terry Brice, from Patchway, South Gloucestershire, and Kye Thomas, from Gunnislake, Cornwall; father and daughter Michael and Maggie Barton, from Windsor, Berkshire; grandparents Anthony and Pamela Adams, from Newport, south Wales; and battle re-enactor Malcolm Beacham, from Woolavington, near Bridgwater, Somerset.

An inquest into their deaths was opened by the west Somerset coroner in Taunton on Thursday.

The public had been asked to stay away from the vigil following police concerns about the number of people who might attend.

Space has been set aside at Sainsbury's car park for public tributes to be laid from Saturday morning.

A book of condolence has also been placed in Taunton Library for people to sign.

[ChrisB]

There is a fund-raising gig being organised by a public-spirited Bristolian st the Colston Hall on Dec 4, to raise money for funerals. Not sure whether he has blessing to do this from deceased relatives though? Not clear from his tweets.

Just getting line-up sorted. Has managed some press coverage.

[JayMac]

Thanks for that ChrisB.

From the Bristol Evening Post:

A benefit gig is being organised in Bristol to raise money for the families affected by the M5 crash.

The event has been arranged for December 4 at the city's Colston Hall to contribute towards funeral costs and a memorial with any other funds being distributed among families. It was the idea of John Langley, of Brislington, who was moved to do something after seeing coverage of the tragedy.

Seven people died in the crash on Friday night, which also left 51 people injured.

Mr Langley is chairman of Bristol Local Involvement Network, which gives people a say on health services in the city. He has been appealing for musicians, bands, singers and comedians who can be part of the event and as well as securing a venue has already lined up some musicians and a presenter and support on social networking site Twitter.

Mr Langley told the Evening Post: "When I saw the images that unfolded I was horrified and felt something needs to be done about this. That was it and I have not stopped since."

Police were yesterday interviewing witnesses to the crash, which involved 34 vehicles, and are appealing for anyone who was there on the night or who may have video footage to contact them on 101 or call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.

Any performers or presenters who can be part of the M5 Benefit Gig should contact m5benefitgig@gmail.com.

[ChrisB]

Line-up announcement due on Wednesday I'm hearing

[JayMac]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

M5 crash: No weather warning

No weather warning signs were displayed on the M5 on the night of a fatal motorway pile-up, despite a fog forecast, the BBC can reveal.

Seven people were killed and 51 injured in the crash on 4 November.

The Met Office had told the Highways Agency of "isolated fog" in the area on the day of the crash, the Agency has confirmed.

Police are investigating whether smoke from a nearby fireworks display may have contributed to the pile up.

Some drivers had reported smoke or fog before the crash.

The Highways Agency confirmed that there were no warning signs.

It said a Met Office regional weather advisory issued to its regional control centre at Avonmouth had warned of isolated fog, but did not highlight fog as a "potential hazard" at the time of the collision.

A spokesperson said: "At the time of the incident on Friday November 4, our Regional Control Centre at Avonmouth had not received any warnings or reports of adverse weather conditions on any of our roads in the South West and no weather-related warnings were set on our electronic message signs."

The Highways Agency added that fog messages could also be set on electronic signs by the regional control centre if it was alerted by visibility sensors, but there were no sensors on that stretch of the M5.

It said: "In light of the ongoing police investigation it would not be appropriate to comment further."

The full story can be seen on Inside Out West on BBC1 at 19:30 GMT.

That edition of Inside Out West is available now on BBC iPlayer until 1959 21/11/2011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0178n92/Inside_Out_West_14_11_2011/

[inspector_blakey]

Without wishing to stir up a hornet's nest, I'm not sure that putting on 'Fog' matrix signs would have made a lot of difference. Unfortunately you see advisory speed limits or fog warnings on those signs so often when there is no need for the speed limit or warning that I would guess a vast majority of drivers simply ignore them.

[ChrisB]

yup, totally agree....

[Chris from Nailsea]

So do I  (posting personally, not as an Admin). 

[JayMac]

Some of these matrix signs have sensors don't they? I've seen a whole line of them lit up with 'Fog' on the M5 on a clear, sunny August afternoon. Can only assume something incorrectly triggered the sensor.

That may be part of a general problem (not related in any way to the recent M5 crash), motorists ignoring the warning because of previous occasions where they've seen the sign incorrectly illuminated.