......are there any conditions.......

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

...........which are conducive to a reliable railway?

If it's hot or cold we get "poor rail conditions", ditto Autumn due to the failure to cope with the natural phenomenon of leaves falling off trees, if it snows, forget it and stay at home, and today it was apparently the wrong kind of wind. ............for years now at the weekends and later in the evenings the service is frequently decimated by engineering works, as will be the case over Christmas (again).

To say nothing of frequent signal failures.

......would I maybe be OK say on a mild April day, midweek, between 8 am and 5pm?

Sometimes seems we have a fair weather, 7 am to 7 pm, weekday railway? (with massive overcrowding thrown in) 

[trainer]

Possibly the same conditions as reliable road transport?  No collisions closing motorways, no ice/spray/fog/heat melting surfaces, no road works lasting months, no fireworks nearby, no pedestrians crossing stupidly etc etc...

Let's face it - travelling is always going to have some potential for uncertainty, no matter how you do it.

[Fourbee]

Possibly the same conditions as reliable road transport?

I did hear that yesterday there was an accident in the road tunnel to Heathrow Terminals 1, (2), 3 and people were reported to be abandoning cars. There was also gridlock reported on the surrounding roads.

Presumably the underground/heathrow express/heathrow connect would have been the only way in/out at the time. Not sure if there is any direct pedestrian access?

[IndustryInsider]

Presumably the underground/heathrow express/heathrow connect would have been the only way in/out at the time.

Or possibly a plane... 

[Fourbee]

Presumably the underground/heathrow express/heathrow connect would have been the only way in/out at the time.

Or possibly a plane... 

  Hadn't thought of that one!

[Network SouthEast]

It amazes me how many folks suffer from weather related amnesia.

We've always had problems in this country with inclement weather and transport. It seems we have one good year for weather, and then suddenly the next year when usual conditions resume people have forgotten what reality is like.

Then come the inevitable comparisons with railways in Europe, which are without merit. For example, in the Netherlands, Arriva and NS had suspended rail services after 14:00 yesterday and there were blanket speed restrictions in parts of France and Germany.

[thetrout]

I'm not sure I agree with most of this at all. Yes Signal Failures are incredibly irritating and a few could perhaps be avoided. But things do break down such is life. Computers Crash, Cables degrade with changing weather and sometimes human error and poor judgement causes "unforeseen consequences". We are only human and it happens.

I am very much minded of the Southall Rail Crash and the role that the OHLE^▸ (Over-Head Line Equipment (electrification via catenary)) (Overhead Line Equipment) played in the accident. Great technology implementation for electric trains. But I don't think anyone could see the potential for such an outcome with the Supporting Stanchions. Thankfully the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) has a very reasonable safety record when you look at the amount of fatal road accidents that happen in just a day alone... Trains also travel much faster than Cars/Lorries/Buses etc

I must say though that as FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are now paying significantly higher track access charges. Then as FGW I would seriously be taking Network Rail to the cleaners considering the recent signalling issues. However I must also stress that with the fail systems in place, I would rather a significant delay and be safe, than risk proceeding but there being a dangerous risk of something going terribly wrong.

Finally, some of the public and the media especially seem to take very dim views on Planned Engineering Works, Emergency Engineering Works and Delays as of the result of Track Side Equipment failing on the railways. So roads are never closed for roadworks, Accidents never happen on the highways, Road Bridges are never closed due to high winds, Roads are never closed to hold a street market on the 3rd Sunday every month. Lorries never break down on Junctions. Traffic Signals never break down in the rush hour. The list is endless.

I would rather be stuck on a train, than in a traffic jam on the motorway any day of the week. At least you can get up and use the toilet, get a cup of coffee etc. Also, who compensates you for a 3 hour traffic jam vs. a 1 hour train delay?!?! ;-) Don't see any reductions in Vehicle Tax I'm sure...

Whilst I may be being overally harsh here. I certainly think your OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter, or Off Peak, depending on context) was made in frustration which is completely understandable. But as trainer says. Delays to travel no matter what method (even walking) you use are all very possible to delays and you just need to take it on the chin sadly. I don't like saying that. But I get stressed out over more than enough things as it is. I don't need to be contributing to that level any further whatsoever!

I hear an announcement that the train is going to be delayed by an hour and watch most people sigh or get annoyed. But why the need? Yes you can scream and shout at the staff, but is that going to get the train moving any quicker? Fact is, not alot can be done. I personally on hearing these announcements will go and order at the Travelling Chef if I can, or get my laptop out if it's a short journey and occupy my time that way. No point stressing over what is out of my control. The only time I would approach staff with a concern is if the delay was likely to mean I was going to miss last connection of the day. On occasions when this has happened, I've got the staff at the station to endorse my ticket before I've even gotten on the delayed train and then can deal with it as I conclude my journey.

[johoare]

I totally agree with you thetrout with an exception.. If it's one of those many trains where there is just enough room to breath (as long as you stand in the right position).. Then I don't think being on a delayed train is better than being stuck in a traffic jam etc

[ellendune]

I have just come back from Glasgow. The wind yesterday morning was so bad pedestrians were being injured because they could not stand.  Network Rail shut the rail system in Scotland because debris was being blown onto the lines. 

I am told that planes manged to land at Glasgow airport, but they could not put the steps in place as it was not safe to be out in the wind and there was a fear that passengers disembarking would be blown off the steps!

Roads are cannot be easily closed (except at specific sites) so people go out regardless of the conditions and two or them were killed (not just in Scotland). Others were injured. And so the emergency services had to go out and risk their lives as well.

The police closed the forth road bridge, but somehow a cyclist got past and was filed on the bridge.  How utterly stupid.

Perhaps we should have a mechanism to close all roads when conditions are too dangerous.

[Lee]

I have to ask - How does one get filed on a bridge?

[Electric train]

I really do believe that the Highways Agency should publish performance figures the same as Network Rail.  With the proposed changes to the Road Fund Licence (Tax Disk) it would be easy to give road users a refund if their journey was delayed due to a problem on a Highway Agency asset including where such a failure rippled out to local road users................... But that isn't about to happen any time soon is it the Government would end up paying us more than they get in.

There are lot of people employed in the Railway industry who work very hard to keep the wheels moving, sometimes they are thwarted by equipment failures and there is a very robust investigation process that looks for common mode failures, some of the failures are due to upgrade and renewals works disturb something that has not been disturbed for 30 or 50 years it ceases to be reliable.  Often the failures are through external events which are outside the railways influence to control

[broadgage]

Not much can be done about truly extreme or exceptional weather conditions badly affecting road, rail, air and other transport.

However UK^▸ (United Kingdom) railways seem to be increasingly affected by only moderately adverse weather, such as may be expected if not every year then at least every few years.

Modern trains seem increasingly vulnerable to hot weather or leaves on the line.
Modern signalling systems control huge areas with the result that a single fault can close hundreds of route miles, or major termini.

Electrification though a good idea in theory seems to result in major delays whenever it is windy.
Ice on the third rail network has always been a problem, but newer trains seem more vulnerable than say an EPB.

And of course with the general move towards shorter trains with high density seating or more standing, then when breakdowns occur conditions are far worse.
To be stuck for a few hours on an old train sitting down, with heating/air conditioning, lighting, working toilets, and openable doors and windows, and perhaps even a buffet or restaurant is merely irritating.

To be stuck standing on a new shorter crush loaded train in the dark in freezing cold or sweltering heat, without refreshments or toilets is a potential emergency not merely an irritation.

[bobm]

Modern signalling systems control huge areas with the result that a single fault can close hundreds of route miles, or major termini.

Similar problem with air traffic control....  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25278163

Flights are being delayed across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and Ireland because of an air traffic control centre fault.

Affected airports include Heathrow, Stansted, Cardiff, Dublin, and Glasgow.

The National Air Traffic Control Service (Nats) said its Swanwick centre, in Hampshire, was having "difficulty switching from night time to daytime operation".

[thetrout]

I totally agree with you thetrout with an exception.. If it's one of those many trains where there is just enough room to breath (as long as you stand in the right position).. Then I don't think being on a delayed train is better than being stuck in a traffic jam etc

That I hadn't considered, and I quite agree with you on that Jo That is more of an emergency in my opinion rather than a mild inconvenience to travel plans. As we've seen before, that's when people start opening doors using the emergency escape systems! Thus potentially making the problem much, much worse!

To be stuck for a few hours on an old train sitting down, with heating/air conditioning, lighting, working toilets, and openable doors and windows, and perhaps even a buffet or restaurant is merely irritating.

To be stuck standing on a new shorter crush loaded train in the dark in freezing cold or sweltering heat, without refreshments or toilets is a potential emergency not merely an irritation.

I also agree with broadgage' comments here completely which draw into your suggestions Jo.

During the January Slough Signal Failures my train was held at Chippenham for 50 minutes and then a further hour just outside Slough. Arrived into Paddington 1 hour 50 minutes late! Yes it was annoying and got tiresome when trains were running past us in the opposite direction. But with my logical thinking head on... If they didn't let the trains from Paddington side out, there would have been no room for my train to get in! Conditions onboard were good and announcements kept us well informed. I just wish the buffet didn't close just after Reading and IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion') that was the worst part of the whole experience.

[TaplowGreen]

Thankyou Broadgage for hitting the nail squarely on the head. The point is that it takes exceptionally bad weather for roads, airports etc to close down, regardless of the type of vehicles operating (indeed many of these are designed to cope with extreme weather), and yet it seems that in our relatively benign climate,  modern rail systems/trains are increasingly vulnerable to entirely predictable weather  compared to other parts of the world, who seem to cope, and the same goes for overcrowding.

I appreciate that many who post on here are employed by and/or in love with the railways, however a little objectivity is always a good thing - simply implying that because there are occasionally problems on other means of transport should make it acceptable for us to tolerate a fourth class rail service at first class prices is a pretty poor argument, but it seems to be the default position.