London Terminals

[whole diary]

[Surrey 455]

Today's tube strike has made me rethink about how I get to work. I currently use SWT^▸ (South West Trains) from Bookham and change at Waterloo to the Waterloo and City line.

Today I changed at Waterloo to a South Eastern train from Waterloo East to London Bridge and walked from there. It was a pleasant walk and didn't take too long. I was able to get a seat on every train both there and back which mirrors my experience on the last strike.

So my question is, when I renew my SWT season ticket next year can I give up using the tube by having a ticket to "London Terminals"? Can I get off my SWT train, leave the barriers at Waterloo, walk to Waterloo East and catch a South Eastern train to London Bridge using this ticket?

If I can that will save me a lot of money for only an extra 15 minutes or so travelling time.

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated

[paul7575]

So my question is, when I renew my SWT^▸ (South West Trains) season ticket next year can I give up using the tube by having a ticket to "London Terminals"? Can I get off my SWT train, leave the barriers at Waterloo, walk to Waterloo East and catch a South Eastern train to London Bridge using this ticket?

Yes most definitely.  'London Terminals' for a ticket from Bookham, and most areas southwest of London, is quite flexible, and as well as Waterloo, includes Victoria, Charing Cross, London Bridge, and less obviously Cannon St, Blackfriars and City Thameslink (but no further).

Historically these stations correspond to a ticketing group formerly known as 'London SR^▸ (Southern Railway / Southern Region / Scot Rail / Scottish Region (rather confusing - it depends on the context))'.  The ticket barriers at Waterloo are programmed to pass tickets through to allow this onward travel.

Paul

[Southern Stag]

Historically these stations correspond to a ticketing group formerly known as 'London SR^▸ (Southern Railway / Southern Region / Scot Rail / Scottish Region (rather confusing - it depends on the context))'.  The ticket barriers at Waterloo are programmed to pass tickets through to allow this onward travel.

Paul

But bizarrely will swallow tickets with the destination of London St Pancras, which are also valid through Waterloo and onwards via Waterloo East and London Bridge to St Pancras via the Thameslink route. For anybody who is ever buying tickets from South of the Thames travelling to Kings Cross/St Pancras it's always worth checking if National Rail only tickets are available to St Pancras. It's a little slower having to go via Thameslink but often much cheaper.

[paul7575]

But bizarrely will swallow tickets with the destination of London St Pancras, which are also valid through Waterloo and onwards via Waterloo East and London Bridge to St Pancras via the Thameslink route. For anybody who is ever buying tickets from South of the Thames travelling to Kings Cross/St Pancras it's always worth checking if National Rail only tickets are available to St Pancras. It's a little slower having to go via Thameslink but often much cheaper.

Might that be because a ticket to St Pancras has different route restrictions, and although it might be routed something like 'not underground' it is intended to be valid via an FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) through service only?  I know from other forums that such fares are also queried at Victoria, even if people point out they intend to use other means to cross London. One of those completely grey areas about routing.

I'm aware that many TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) in the south will just provide a ticket to London Terminals if you try and get to somewhere like St Pancras, Kings Cross or Euston, but of course these are not valid for cross London travel and ought not to be sold for that purpose, the correct fare being to 'London U1'...

Paul

[Fourbee]

Interesting about the St Pancras fares, never knew they existed, may come in useful one day.

I had a look at the London U1 fares in NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) 18. Maybe I imagined it, but off-peak day returns no longer seem to exist with that destination.

Kentish Town as a destination can also be a useful one in this scenario if e.g. Waterloo-St Pancras via tube is required (also works by selecting NR^» (Network Rail - home page) stations close to other London Termini as desired). I think that quite often works out cheaper than 2 x Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) singles added on to a London Terminals fare.

[Southern Stag]

But bizarrely will swallow tickets with the destination of London St Pancras, which are also valid through Waterloo and onwards via Waterloo East and London Bridge to St Pancras via the Thameslink route. For anybody who is ever buying tickets from South of the Thames travelling to Kings Cross/St Pancras it's always worth checking if National Rail only tickets are available to St Pancras. It's a little slower having to go via Thameslink but often much cheaper.

Might that be because a ticket to St Pancras has different route restrictions, and although it might be routed something like 'not underground' it is intended to be valid via an FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) through service only?  I know from other forums that such fares are also queried at Victoria, even if people point out they intend to use other means to cross London. One of those completely grey areas about routing.

I'm aware that many TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) in the south will just provide a ticket to London Terminals if you try and get to somewhere like St Pancras, Kings Cross or Euston, but of course these are not valid for cross London travel and ought not to be sold for that purpose, the correct fare being to 'London U1'...

Paul

I agree that it's quite hard to define the valid routes to London St Pancras as all the routing guide will give you is routes to London Group. Tickets to St Pancras are available from many destinations in the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) area which have no direct FCC trains though. Using a ticket to London St Pancras at Waterloo is perfectly logical, as the route onwards via Waterloo East and London Bridge is often the quickest to get to St Pancras. I have managed to get a booking engine to give me an itinerary via Waterloo too, although generally they won't suggest such a route because of the long interchange times at Waterloo-Waterloo East and London Bridge. The SWT TVMs at Guildford don't give any option to buy a ticket to London St Pancras so I just buy it online.

[Fourbee]

I generally buy most of my tickets online now if the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) wont sell what I want. It is less rigmarole than trying to obtain exotic ticket(s) at the booking office.

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) TVMs do not allow a change of origin station (nor FGW^▸ (First Great Western) for that matter) which is particularly annoying as it can be done (e.g. Southern).

[Surrey 455]

Thank you, Paul for your contribution. I calculate that I can save up to ^650 a year by choosing this ticket. It'll probably be less because there will be times when for work or for leisure I'll need to pay for a bus or tube.

I'm also seriously considering the bike for work scheme. I can save another ^250 per year by cycling to Leatherhead instead where I would also benefit with a doubled frequency of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) trains plus Southern as well. Obviously I have not factored in the price of a bike in the first place. In fact I might just see if my old 30 year old bike is worth servicing and skip the bike4work.

[SDS]

I think London St Pancras tickets get printed as London Thameslink now (4452)   

[Southern Stag]

London Thameslink is the rough equivalent of St Pancras for destinations of the northern section of the Thameslink route. London St Pancras is used for destinations south of the Thames.