ScotRail franchise

[whole diary]

[John R]

Maybe, but this, from the Abellio website:-


Brand new trains operating between Edinburgh and Glasgow as part of the EGIP project

Eighty new trains due to arrive at start of December 2017

would seem to imply that the announced commitment is for 20 x 4 car sets.  IIRC^▸ ('if I recall/remember/read correctly') the franchise requirement was for Dec 16, but perhaps common sense has prevailed and the fact that the earlier date was impossible (and probably irrelevant given pace of progress on EGIP) has been recognised.

[Network SouthEast]

You seem to be confusing trains with vehicles.

[JayMac]

Indeed. Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High alone will require more than 20x 4 car sets. More than half of ScotRail's 56 Class 170s are currently used between Edinburgh and Glasgow QS via Falkirk High.  20 EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) won't be enough for post EGIP service.

[John R]

Indeed. Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High alone will require more than 20x 4 car sets. More than half of ScotRail's 56 Class 170s are currently used between Edinburgh and Glasgow QS via Falkirk High.  20 EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) won't be enough for post EGIP service.

Each diagram will cover one return journey every two hours, equals 8 diagrams (at 4tph), equals 16 units in the peak (doubled up), so say 20 units including an allowance for availability.  So no, I don't think I am confusing trains with vehicles. On the contrary, I think the Abellio website is the one confusing trains with vehicles.

[Rhydgaled]

There were rumours that the Scottish parliment were looking at cascaded Voyagers or Meridians

Were there? I doubt such specifics for additional rolling stock for the franchise were given to the bidders. It certainly wasn't mentioned in the ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) that Transport Scotland wanted Class 22x stock to fulfill the role for improved inter-city operations. The ITT merely required procurement of suitable rolling stock, or utilisation of existing stock.

The rumours I refered to came in the form of forum discussions (probably not this forum) about future rolling stock cascades, they first surfaced some time ago now (probably before the ITT was issued). If I recall correctly it was ex-VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchise (or, possibly, in a France context, Versement Transport - a payroll tax on employers to fund local transport) ) class 221s that were mentioned, so perhaps it was before the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) re-franchise cancelation too.

[JayMac]

Each diagram will cover one return journey every two hours, equals 8 diagrams (at 4tph), equals 16 units in the peak (doubled up), so say 20 units including an allowance for availability.  So no, I don't think I am confusing trains with vehicles. On the contrary, I think the Abellio website is the one confusing trains with vehicles.

The most recent diagrams I have seen online show that 22 Class 170 units are diagrammed for Edinburgh-Glasgow QS via Falkirk High for all or part of the day (Mon-Fri). There are a further 5 units stabled (some unavailable for maintenance and those that are available for cover will be for cover across the network and not just E-G). My earlier comment that 'more than half' of the Class 170s were diagrammed for E-G was wrong. I should have said 'around half'. Apologies.

That's from 2011 diagrams available to read by registered users of http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Diagrams:Class+170+SX+May+2011. I've no reason to believe diagrams have substantially changed in the intervening 3 years. The timetable between E-G certainly hasn't, save for minor tweeks.

So with 22 diagrams to cover, plus spare sets, 20x 4 car EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) sets will not cover all diagrams for like by like (albeit 4 car EMU replacing 3 carDMU) replacement of Class 170s post EGIP. Unless Abellio ScotRail plan to reduce the use of doubled up sets at peak times. That's very unlikely I think when all the bumpf has been suggesting an increase in capacity.

Abellio ScotRail Ltd placed a tender for up to 400 EMU vehicles. 70-80 4 car trains (240-320 vehicles) is certainly within that 'up to' range.

Maybe, but this, from the Abellio website:-

Brand new trains operating between Edinburgh and Glasgow as part of the EGIP project

Eighty new trains due to arrive at start of December 2017

I don't see those statements to mean there are 80 new trains for EGIP. It's 80 new trains across the network. Some of which will be operating EGIP. Nowhere has there been mention of 80 new vehicles for EGIP. Sorry, but I have to agree with Network SouthEast on this one.

[John R]

OK, if 80 trains refers to across the whole network then that makes more sense.

[ChrisB]

Rumour has it that these will be built by Hitachi at Newton Aycliffe, subject to contract....

[Network SouthEast]

Richard Clinnick (Rail magazine) says that Hitachi will be building the new Scotrail EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) at it's Newton Aycliffe factory.

46 three car trains
24 four car trains

A total of 234 vehicles will be built.

[Chris125]

It has also been reported that there will be 27 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) for 'Scotrail Intercity' services between Inverness and Aberdeen and down to the Central Belt.

Chris

[JayMac]

Rumour has it that these will be built by Hitachi at Newton Aycliffe, subject to contract....

Yep. From the Darlington & Stockton Times:

Newton Aycliffe firm will supply Abellio

ROLLING STOCK: An image of the trains Hitachi will make for Abellio

NORTH-EAST train builder Hitachi Rail Europe has secured a major deal to make rolling stock for a Scottish franchise.

The company will make trains and carriages for Dutch rail operator Abellio at its new ^82m factory in Newton Aycliffe, County Durham.

Abellio will run ScotRail services from April 2015.

Bosses say Hitachi will supply 70 trains and 234 carriages, which will run on electrified lines between Edinburgh and Glasgow and lines passing through Stirling, Alloa and Dunblane.

The AT200 commuter trains will operate from 2017.

Hitachi^s factory will open in Aycliffe in 2016, creating 730 North-East jobs.

Andy Barr, Hitachi Rail Europe^s chief operating officer, said: ^We are delighted Abellio has selected us as preferred bidder to supply rolling stock as well as long-term maintenance of our electric trains.

^This is great news, as it is the first contract for our recently launched AT200 commuter train.^

Hitachi^s Aycliffe factory will make Class 800 and 801 trains for the Government^s Intercity Express Programme, which will modernise the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s ageing 40-year-old high-speed train fleet.

Sedgefield MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) Phil Wilson, who played a key role in persuading the Japanese firm to invest ^82m in the North-East, said: ^This is more excellent news for Hitachi Rail Europe and for Newton Aycliffe.^

70 trains, 234 carriages, gives the impression that some of these units will be 3 car length.

From other forums, but not yet verified, initially 70 trains up to 2022, with a further 10 should the franchise be extended past year 7.

[Network SouthEast]

Richard Clinnick (Rail magazine) says that Hitachi will be building the new Scotrail EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) at it's Newton Aycliffe factory.

46 three car trains
24 four car trains

A total of 234 vehicles will be built.

70 trains, 234 carriages, gives the impression that some of these units will be 3 car length.

Yes they will. See my earlier post above.

[JayMac]

Aye. Missed that post. Sorry. 

[TonyK]

Aycliffe will open in 2016 - there's going to be precious little time for tea breaks if they are going to have the 800 / 801s done in time, let alone the AT200s. I know it's an assembly rather than manufacturing operation, but it still seems a tight schedule to me.

[JayMac]

From various chatter on forums I get the impression that the AT200s for ScotRail will be built up to 2022, so no immediate rush to get the whole fleet in service. I suspect Abellio's 'Eighty new trains due to arrive at start of December 2017' will more likely be 'due to start arriving December 2017'.

It does seem a bit of a push to have the whole fleet ready by December 2017. The Class 800 and 801s won't all be ready until 2019.