Franchise Announcement

[whole diary]

[Rapidash]

It's going to be a long three years waiting for the 150's to replace the Pacers on the Metro.

[ChrisB]

Eh? Pacers are 150s aren't they?

Do you mean 165s?

[ellendune]

Eh? Pacers are 150s aren't they?

Do you mean 165s?

Pacers are the 140's

[Rhydgaled]

Pacers are the 140's

And the 141s, 142s, 143s and 144s. Only 142-144 still in service in this country.

For ChrisB:

• 140-144s are 'Pacers'
• 150s are 'Sprinters'
• 153, 155 and 156 are 'Super Sprinters'
• 158s are 'Express Sprinters' or, as I like to call them, 'Alphalines'
• 159s are basically 158s so you'd think they'd be 'Express Sprinter' / 'Alphaline' as well, but actually they call 'em 'South Western Turbos'
• 165s are 'Networker Turbos'
• 166s are either 'Networker Turbo Expresses' or 'Networker Express Turbos'

[Red Squirrel]

I thought they were called 'Printers' and 'Spacers'... shows what I know.

[Zoe]

Looking at the proposed journey times for Plymouth/Penzance I note that even with new stock, they are slower than the fastest journeys today even though it is proposed for them all to be non-stop between Reading and Taunton.  It would seem that this would mean all trains will be stopping at Reading, Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Exeter St Davids, Newton Abbot and Totnes.  If this is the case then any gain from not stopping between Reading and Taunton and better acceleration from the new trains is lost due to the need to make so many stops on all trains between Taunton and Plymouth.  The benefit of this is of course that it would result in a simple clockface timetable but I'm not sure if this is the best idea.  Will the busiest services from Penzance cope with the extra passengers due to the additional calls?

[ChrisB]

If they all stop at each station, surely that would result in a more even spread, with few being 'busiest'

[Zoe]

If they all stop at each station, surely that would result in a more even spread, with few being 'busiest'

I'd have still thought certain trains will be busier than others.  For example I'm not sure many people will want to spend the morning hanging around in Penzance so they can get a later train.

[ChrisB]

5car will run up to Plymouth & they'll add another 5Car there.

[Zoe]

5car will run up to Plymouth & they'll add another 5Car there.

Yes but if the loadings at more popular times of the day from Plymouth and Cornwall remain constant or even increase, will there not be overcrowding east of Plymouth due to additional stations calls between there and Taunton?  I understand that some of the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) can be very busy when leaving Plymouth.  It also doesn't seem to be much of an improvemet to give slower journey times from Cornwall to London compared to some of the current fastest services.

[ChrisB]

The press releases say a small 13 minute gain in times PNZ-London. So peanuts when recognising the higher acceleration times away from stations.

There will be more trains in the timetable = more seats. If overcrowding does occur, there just won't be (m)any advances, and that'll concentrate minds.

[Zoe]

The press releases say a small 13 minute gain in times PNZ-London. So peanuts when recognising the higher acceleration times away from stations.

That may well be the case when compared with the current average journey time but the times shown in the document are still slower than some of the current fastest services.  The current Up Cornish Riveira reaches London from Penzance in 5 hours 0 minutes, Plymouth from 3 hours 0 minutes and Exeter form 2 hours 2 minutes.  The propsed times are Penzance from 5 hours 8 minutes, Plymouth from 3 hours 12 minutes and Exeter from 2 hours 9 hours 9 minutes.  If the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) decide that HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) should be retained then from reading the document it seems that the trains would still be making the additional station and the timings will be even worse.

If overcrowding does occur, there just won't be (m)any advances, and that'll concentrate minds.

Which in some cases may well result in people going by car rather than travelling at a time which isn't convenient for them.  Not something to be encouraged.

[ChrisB]

There are more seats going forward than currently, so I'm not sure what your concern is? There won't be a full 5car between Plymouth and Penzance

[ChrisB]

Zoe - Industry Insider has just agreed with me in another thread - see here

[Zoe]

There are more seats going forward than currently, so I'm not sure what your concern is? There won't be a full 5car between Plymouth and Penzance

The concern is that with all the extra station calls the trains will be overcowded by the time it reaches Taunton.  You are saying that a 5 car train from Penzance will never be full before it reaches Plymouth but I have heard reports that some HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) arrivng into Plymouth from Cornwall are very busy and even more so leaving Plymouth.  You say more trains is more seats but the frequency seems to be remaining roughly the same from Plymouth.  Yes there will be a semi-fast service from Exeter but I doubt many people from Exeter are going to be using that when it will be significantly slower.