Great Western franchise to be broken up?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Rumours on Twitter that the Devon and Cornwall TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) will include the Berks and Hants route to London
Philip Haigh yesterday on Twitter

Hearing whisper that proposed Devon & Cornwall TOC will include Berks & Hants route to London. DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to consult very soon.

That has potential to introduce some competition (price and journey time) for those in Wiltshire who need to get to London and can chose between going North to Bath/Chippenham or South to Westbury.  

There is already a "via Salisbury" option ... a "via Newbury" and an "any permitted" ... a total of 12 standard class return fares from Westbury to London terminals are listed at BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Fares .   Of course, at certain times you may do better splitting at Newbury ...

[devonexpress]

Rumours on Twitter that the Devon and Cornwall TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) will include the Berks and Hants route to London
Philip Haigh yesterday on Twitter

Hearing whisper that proposed Devon & Cornwall TOC will include Berks & Hants route to London. DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to consult very soon.

haha there is also "rumors" that the London-South Wales route will become its own franchise, or that Bristol to Portsmouth sections will become part of the South Western Railway! Its all a load of speculative rubbish! At the moment its only an idea that's been hanging around for 2 years, and what's happened in that time? Nothing! Its just Chris Grayling trying to look like a busy body who's improving rail franchises, he's an idiot who doesn't even understand railways, how can he when he hardly ever commutes on them, and takes his ministerial car to Westminster everyday!

[a-driver]

An announcement on a potential Devon & Cornwall franchise will be made tomorrow. Absolute madness if it goes ahead. Not much support from the local MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)

[Henry]

 Has the process started already ?,  Crossrail taking some of the London GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) stations.

[Timmer]

The way it was being talked about on the Today program this morning was Intercity and locals being split up sounding like it was something revolutionary making franchises smaller. Anyway, we shall see later when it's all announced.

[ellendune]

Looking at the map of the split in the consultation document:

There would be no through trains WSM to London
There would be no services to Devon routed via Swindon and Bristol

The only through SW services from Bristol would be run by the Cross Country

[ChrisB]

And only as far as Exeter if XCs^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) proposals aren't changed!

[devonexpress]

Isn't that all ready happening because of the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) introduction, absolutely stupid if you ask me. If you remember though back in 2014 George Osbourne said he wanted to split the Devon & Cornwall locals from the rest of the franchise, because the idiot MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)'s where moaning. Then a lot of people said "no" so the MP's said "no" and now that's been scrapped in favour of merging the locals and intercity services into a franchise, and everyone saying "no" again. I wonder how many proposal and how much money is being spent on all of this, until the penny finally drops. Its just a waste of civil servants time, and causing more problems than answers.

[Noggin]

This is the map out of the consultation. So roughly speaking, one lot gets the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) to Swansea plus the Reading diesel work, the other lot gets the Berks & Hants to Penzance plus Bristol and Exeter diesel work. 

In some respect there's the "if it aint broke, why fix it" argument. But on the other hand, the franchise is a big one, management attention will inevitably be focused on London to Cardiff and the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) lines, so perhaps splitting it with an entity that has time and energy to deal with regional government such as the WoE, Devon & Cornwall  etc might not be a bad thing.

Also, it addresses some of the original issues with Wessex in that they didn't have an Intercity cash-cow, so were permanently the poor relation and were heavily reliant on subsidies.

Whilst it sort of follows the split on the original IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) order and the 802's for Penzance, IIRC^▸ ('if I recall/remember/read correctly') it's not entirely the case and there are some 802's intended for Oxford services. As for no services from London to WoE via Bristol, I believe that it was always the plan with the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.)'s. Of course, don't forget that this is just a consultation, there's likely scope for movement if user groups kick up enough of a stink.   

[rogerw]

One of my concerns is over fares from the west Wilts area, particularly towards London. At present there are 3 possible routes towards Reading and Paddington, via Bath, via Melksham and via Newbury, all offering advance fares.  If teh service from Bath/Chippenham is under a different franchise will we be left with advance fares via Westbury only, one train every 2 hours as against the, at least, half hourly offering at present.  Advance fares via Salisbury, when available, are generally limited to the through services and no longer offered on connecting services as once was then case.

[devonexpress]

Having just answered the consolation questionnaire and given some very strong feedback to the department for transport, I can also reveal they have plans to transfer the Greenford Branch to Chiltern Railways(heaven knows why its always been a Western railway route) and the Bristol - Salisbury - Southampton - Brighton route is to be split up, with the new GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise to serve Bristol to Salisbury - Southampton, and Southampton to Brighton being taken over my TSGN and run by 377's. Which is actually not a bad idea as it allows GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to utilise more 158's elsewhere Or 166's if they ever get approved. Overall the only benefit of splitting it up is more money to the government(which is really all they care about).  Oh and one final confirmation for everyone, the GWR franchise may be extended by another 2 years until 2022.

[Electric train]

I can also reveal they have plans to transfer the Greenford Branch to Chiltern Railways(heaven knows why its always been a Western railway route)

I can for pure rolling stock logistics, there will not be many GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s operating west of Slough so getting the Greenford Unit back to Reading will be a challenge, were as for Chiltern Wimberley is not far away

[devonexpress]

I can also reveal they have plans to transfer the Greenford Branch to Chiltern Railways(heaven knows why its always been a Western railway route)

I can for pure rolling stock logistics, there will not be many GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s operating west of Slough so getting the Greenford Unit back to Reading will be a challenge, were as for Chiltern Wimberley is not far away

True, but then it can always run as a stopping service, or if not just run fast down the mainline. The other option of course is to look at a battery operated railcar, as in the consultation there was proposals for battery or hydrogen trains to run on certain routes.

[paul7575]

the Bristol - Salisbury - Southampton - Brighton route is to be split up, with the new GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise to serve Bristol to Salisbury - Southampton, and Southampton to Brighton being taken over my TSGN and run by 377's. Which is actually not a bad idea as it allows GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to utilise more 158's elsewhere.

This should really have been done in 2009? when Southern actually commenced their 7 day hourly service between Brighton and Southampton.   It had been proposed in earlier consultations too, but apparently there have always been objections.   

(I hoped the consultation isn't suggesting Southern run an additional and 'off-pattern' service a couple of times a day, but surprisingly it does seem to be written this way.  All a bit odd really...)

It doesn't free up much stock though, there isn't even one train's worth east of Southampton over the course of day, only a few hours taken for a couple of arrivals and departures from Brighton, the first of which only comes from Portsmouth.

Paul

[grahame]

It doesn't free up much stock though, there isn't even one train's worth east of Southampton over the course of day, only a few hours taken for a couple of arrivals and departures from Brighton, the first of which only comes from Portsmouth.

South of Westbury, it's a unit until 11:39 and from 13:32 to 19:39.   There are at least 2 other services per hour south of Salisbury ... fly in the ointment is the awful connections between GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (Cardiff) and Southern (Southampton to Brighton) services.   More anon ... and I'll move this to the looking forward thread.